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 Post subject: Need Some Critique...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:29 am 
Black Sun Thug
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Jedi Purge

Replaces turn: Once per skirmish, non-activated unique enemy characters with Order 66 and in a squad that does not include a character with Jedi Purge, are now considered part of this characters squad; allies with Order 66 gain Accurate Shot and Jedi Hunter.

Was hoping I might get some feed back from the always knowledgeable SWM community here at gamers in regard to this custom Special Ability I was tinkering with for a representation of Darth Sidious from ep.3 ...

1) Does the definition make sense?

2) Would this ability break any of the SWM rules in regards to having duplicate uniques' in one squad (e.g. You have a Capt. Rex in your squad and then, through this ability, you gain your opponents Capt. Rex)?

3) Assuming this ability passes question 2 or is changed to work instead against non-uniques, would this be a useful Special Ability in typical tournament style games?

4) Would it be "over the top" or over-powered?

Appreciate your time and help here Ladies and Gents!


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 Post subject: Re: Need Some Critique...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:12 am 
Sith Apprentice
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to answer your concerns in reverse:
4) As is it's definitely overpowered, no boardwide effect should be so automatic, at the very least add a save (afterall while most did turn on the Jedi a few remained loyal when the order came).

2/3) The Unique issue isn't valid in this case as it would follow the precedent set by Betrayal in that the limitation set in place by Unique are only valid during Squad Building, Reseves, and Reinforcements not when a character switches sides.

1) The secondary part should really be the characters CE rather than a part of the SA.


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 Post subject: Re: Need Some Critique...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:26 am 
Death Star Designers
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Lord_Ball wrote:
to answer your concerns in reverse:
4) As is it's definitely overpowered, no boardwide effect should be so automatic, at the very least add a save (afterall while most did turn on the Jedi a few remained loyal when the order came).

2/3) The Unique issue isn't valid in this case as it would follow the precedent set by Betrayal in that the limitation set in place by Unique are only valid during Squad Building, Reseves, and Reinforcements not when a character switches sides.

1) The secondary part should really be the characters CE rather than a part of the SA.


All true. The definition makes sense, but "Allies with Order 66 gain Accurate Shot and Jedi Hunter" would make more sense as a CE. Although I suppose with doing it this way you make it so that allies with Order 66 that are already on your squad don't start the game with Accurate and would have to wait for this ability to be activated, so there is a small argument to leave it as is. For the sake of simplicity, though, I'd make that a CE.

As Lord Ball mentioned, Unique only affects squad building, so it doesn't interact with this ability.

I think it's WAY too powerful, though. For one thing, you're handing out Accurate Shot and Jedi Hunter to some really great characters, like Republic Commando Darman and Captain Rex. Anything that can give Rex Accurate Shot and Jedi Hunter needs to automatically be a very expensive ability. Changing that part to followers could help, since Rex is the biggest abuser of it and he has a CE. It's still crazy powerful, though, since it's boardwide and requires no save at all. Imagine your opponent is playing Rex and no character with Jedi Purge; you automatically take Rex, then use Rex to do 120 damage to one of his Jedi. You don't have to worry about positioning since you stole your opponent's piece, he's already deep in enemy territory. What if your opponent is playing a bunch of Order 66 characters? Basically this ability would remove Order 66 characters from play completely; no one would ever risk their opponent automatically causing part of their squad to betray (boardwide, no save) and gain Accurate and Jedi Hunter. Being once per skirmish doesn't really help, since it's boardwide with no save it will get everybody, so there's not even a reason you'd want to do it more than once. You'll just use it some round when you win initiative (maybe not the first round, because than your opponent will be able to kill your newly turned characters) so their entire squad is unactivated and you get everybody.

Honestly, I think Execute Order 66 (the ability on the old Sith Lord Palpatine that prevents him from being attacked by Order 66 characters and lets them be in his squad) is a fairly good abstraction of what you want and isn't too powerful. Here's an idea that's a little more in line with what you want to do, though:

Jedi Purge (Replace turn: Enemies within 12 squares with Order 66 join your squad for the rest of the skirmish, save 11)

Takes away the non-activated part and once per skirmish part, but gives it a range and a save (both hugely important). It could be range 6 and save 16 if you want, but I think Replace Turn is important. Basically this will just have your opponent keep his Order 66 characters outside of Sidious' range at all times. It still might be too strong since Republic (the faction I assume he's going in) have R2 and Swap so it's still easy to get him around; it might need to only work against enemy followers or non-unique enemies. That's something that playtesters can figure out, though. :)

If you don't want the "Allies with Order 66 gain Accurate Shot and Jedi Hunter" part to be disruptable, you can just make it a separate SA as opposed to a CE, but I would still separate it from Jedi Purge just to keep it cleaner and simpler.

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 Post subject: Re: Need Some Critique...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:46 am 
Master of the Order
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This is what I would suggest...

Jedi Purge (Replaces turn: Target enemy character with Order 66 and each character with Order 66 within 6 squares of that enemy makes an immediate attack against one of its allies with a Force rating. Enemy characters that score a hit on this attack join your squad for the rest of the skirmish. Save 16 negates)

Also, I'd probably make it a commander effect instead of a special ability.

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 Post subject: Re: Need Some Critique...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:59 am 
Black Sun Thug
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Thank you very much guys! I appreciate the constructive criticism and suggestions!

Boris, thats a great take on it and I think Im just going to go ahead and use your version there instead of trying fix up what I had... which leads me to wonder... would there be any chance of seeing this ability some time in the future perhaps?

After all there are more than a few Sidious/Palpatine pieces in the game (some of which rarely, if ever, see play) and it would be nice to see a new one that was as close to a representation of Sidious as he was in Ep.3 without going beyond the 80-90 something cost range; sort of like a "near epic" piece (i.e. GML/Darth Revan etc.). And we did get the two new Maul's in R&R/Theed/EPIC after all, so why not a new Sid/Palp? ;)

Since y'all helped me out here with this ability, I figure I might as well show you what I had in mind, heh heh :emperor:

(Feel free to critique this idea of Sid/Palp... in fact I'd appreciate your thoughts)

EMPEROR PALPATINE, SCOURGE OF THE JEDI

Imperial
Cost: 90

HP: 140
Def: 22
Att: +16
Dmg: 20

Special Abilities

Unique (Counts as Darth Sidious)
Affinity Order 66 (Characters with Order 66 may be in your squad regardless of faction)
Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies)
Triple Attack (On his turn, this character can make 2 extra attacks instead of moving)
Vicious Attack (Triple damage instead of double on a critical hit)
Execute Order 66 (Cannot be targeted by characters with Order 66)
Jedi Purge (Replaces turn: Target enemy character with Order 66 and each character with Order 66 within 6 squares of that enemy makes an immediate attack against one of its allies with a Force rating. Enemy characters that score a hit on this attack join your squad for the rest of the skirmish. Save 16 negates)

Force Powers
Force 3

Force Renewal 3 This character gets 3 Force points each time he activates
Master of the Force 3 May spend Force points up to 3 times in a single turn
Force Lightning 4 Force 4, replaces attacks: range 6; 50 damage to target. Huge or smaller characters are considered activated this round; save 16
Sith Rage 2 Force 2: +20 Damage on all attacks this turn
Lightsaber Defense Force 1: When hit by an attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11
Surprise Move Force 1; Once per round, after initiative is determined, this character can immediately move up to his Speed before any other character activates
Force Leap Force 1: This turn, this character can move through enemy characters without provoking attacks of opportunity

Commander Effect
Allies gain Jedi Hunter


Last edited by HanSolo79 on Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Need Some Critique...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:29 am 
Sith Apprentice
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I like where Boris' version is going, but would personally tweak it just a bit to target a character with a force rating that the Order 66ers attack and leave off the swapping sides.

(Replaces Turn, sight; Target Enemy character with a force rating, each character with Order 66 within 6 of that target make a save 16, on a failure that character makes an immediate attack against the target.)


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