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 Post subject: Custom DotF Cards?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:26 pm 
Sith Apprentice
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So I have a couple of expensive mini figures I'm missing (Exar Kun and Darth Revan), and I understand we can substitute a different mini than the recommended mini for the V-Sets. My question is if it is alright (would this be permitted at Gencon) if I customize the DotF card to show the mini's image I'm using?

See examples below. I have changed absolutely nothing but the image of the mini itself. None of the wording or stats have been touched.


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Last edited by lonescout on Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:26 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Custom DotF Cards?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:38 pm 
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
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My interpretation, which may get over-ruled, is that you need to have the official printed cardboard cards at official tournaments (Regionals and Gencon), no user-printed cards. As honest as you may be, your opponent or judge would not know if you changed anything else on the card without comparing to an "official" card.


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 Post subject: Re: Custom DotF Cards?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:13 pm 
Name Calling Internet Bully
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MandalMauler wrote:
My interpretation, which may get over-ruled, is that you need to have the official printed cardboard cards at official tournaments (Regionals and Gencon), no user-printed cards. As honest as you may be, your opponent or judge would not know if you changed anything else on the card without comparing to an "official" card.


That was changed months ago, printed cards are fine, as long as they are not changed. I'd bring two sets. It would basically be an opponent's choice if your cards bothered them or not. Best bet is to have the official card right along side it just in case.

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 Post subject: Re: Custom DotF Cards?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:25 pm 
Sith Apprentice
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Thanks for informing me.


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 Post subject: Re: Custom DotF Cards?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:16 am 
Black Sun Thug
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Personally, if I were at GenCon and my opponent were using these cards, I'd feel a bit uncomfortable and would want to take the time to compare all the cards to make sure there's nothing wrong. Now, in a friendly game, I'd have no problem because I'd have my full binder of cards in front of me and could look up the stats on my own cards if I thought something was off.

If you're using different minis from the reccommended mini, I suggest just taking a label and writing the data of the mini on the bottom, like Wizards' minis have. I do that with my custom DotF pieces simply for completeness.

Just my 2 cents.

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 Post subject: Re: Custom DotF Cards?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:28 am 
Imperial Dignitaries
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This is just my preference. Having judged regionals a couple different times I would tell you this. I have no problem with you using a different mini than what is recommended. You would just need to inform your opponent of what is what. I would have a problem with the altered cards. It would just be easier for your opponents and the judge to plan on using the official cards from the PDF. It would ease any confusion and speculation of cheating. Having your custom cards on the table alongside the regular card is something that I would not have a problem with.

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 Post subject: Re: Custom DotF Cards?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:33 am 
Death Star Designers
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it could be as simple as sleeving the cards, the offcial card facing out on one side and the adjusted one on the other, easy to see if they match and if anyone has a problem it's right there.

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 Post subject: Re: Custom DotF Cards?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:54 am 
Mandalore
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I like that the rule has been altered, but if you are going to go to the trouble of making sure you have the 'real' card with you, also, why not have JUST the real card? Why take the time to bother trying to use something other than the real one, if youve got the real one right there?

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 Post subject: Re: Custom DotF Cards?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:21 pm 
Sith Apprentice
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Thanks for the responses. I can completely see the validity behind having the real cards. If I did play in an official tournament, I would have both cards right there, but I just wanted to see if it would be a problem to use these updated cards.

@ Disturbed1: I simply made these cards for fun and to actually match the minis I use for the above figures. I agree that just taking the original is easier. I just like my minis and cards to match. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Custom DotF Cards?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:41 pm 
Name Calling Internet Bully
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lonescout wrote:
Thanks for the responses. I can completely see the validity behind having the real cards. If I did play in an official tournament, I would have both cards right there, but I just wanted to see if it would be a problem to use these updated cards.

@ Disturbed1: I simply made these cards for fun and to actually match the minis I use for the above figures. I agree that just taking the original is easier. I just like my minis and cards to match. :)


And that's the best way to go. You are covered if an opponent has an issue with it, and you get to use what works best for you at the same time. Heck, even if they had a problem, having the real card right there next to it would totally cover you IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: Custom DotF Cards?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:07 am 
Unnamed Wookiee
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Boy am I glad I read this. Thank you, you saved me lots of printer ink. All things considered, I'll print them as is.

I was planning to photograph my personal customs on a green background, edit out the black bases, and transfer the doctored photos on my DotF cards.

Considering the inevitable and sometimes necessary fact many of us will make DotF and R&R customs based on other models than those you specifically recommended, might it be a good idea not to use any miniature artwork on future stat cards or maybe using artwork from, movie footage, comic panels, or video game screen caps? I know I am going to hear the copyright argument but aren't you already using images of WOTC products on the DotF cards? WOTC used drawings not photographs on their stat cards, why not follow their good example?

While we are on topic...

I was planing on making 13/16" diameter printed discs to glue to the bottoms of my DotF minis to reflect the custom model's new booster icon, new set number, new point value, its faction, and new model name.

I was wondering if you guys plan to share the "Phoenix" artwork for DotF booster set icon so it can be printed and glued on the underside of custom model discs? Lets just say, whoever designed the DotF stat cards should work in the US mint because they are almost impossible to modify. Thus lifting the "Phoenix" off a card's image is extremely difficult.

Also should I use the: circle, diamond, star and star-in-circle symbols for rarity or should I use the Aurebesh C, U, R, VR on the underside of the discs?

Thanks in advance for any help getting this all squared away. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Custom DotF Cards?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:40 am 
Unnamed Wookiee
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Also what is legal to print on the backs of the cards for tournament play or do I leave the back blank?

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 Post subject: Re: Custom DotF Cards?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:56 am 
Name Calling Internet Bully
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FVBonura wrote:
Also what is legal to print on the backs of the cards for tournament play or do I leave the back blank?


Doesn't matter. We have a Gamers backing, but I don't think any judge would care if you did something else either.

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 Post subject: Re: Custom DotF Cards?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:18 am 
Unnamed Wookiee
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billiv15 wrote:
Doesn't matter. We have a Gamers backing, but I don't think any judge would care if you did something else either.

OK thanks that helps. Do you have any advice regarding the labels on the bottoms of the models as I outlined above? I would love to print the "Phoenix" booster icon on the bottoms.

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 Post subject: Re: Custom DotF Cards?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:36 am 
Imperial Dignitaries
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FVBonura wrote:
I know I am going to hear the copyright argument but aren't you already using images of WOTC products on the DotF cards? WOTC used drawings not photographs on their stat cards, why not follow their good example?


Yes we did use photos of WOTC product. The photos were all originals and modified in photoshop. None of them were images from the posters or from images released by WOTC. Maybe you have amazing talent and can draw high quality renderings of character rather quickly. But do you realize what it takes to produce 60 images. Let's just say that you can complete the entire process in a hour for one piece. You have to multiplie that by 60 pieces. So you have 60 hours of work. If it takes you 2 hours that is 120 hours of work or the same as a 9-5 job for three weeks straight. In that you have to research the character, figure out what you want to draw, (note you just can't copy other peoples stuff), draw it, put it in a digital format, and edit it so it will fit on the card. So two hours is no where close to the time it would take for one piece. Then of course things in the set could change and you would have to completely change a few figures. So, does that answer your question about the drawn characters? Personally I would figure 6 hours per character if I were drawing them and that would be pushing it. But I can't draw people well. Any way I hope you get an understanding of where I am coming from.


FVBonura wrote:
I was wondering if you guys plan to share the "Phoenix" artwork for DotF booster set icon so it can be printed and glued on the underside of custom model discs? Lets just say, whoever designed the DotF stat cards should work in the US mint because they are almost impossible to modify. Thus lifting the "Phoenix" off a card's image is extremely difficult.


Please read the follwoing thread. http://www.swmgamers.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10352&sid=26a1454c8ef85d268cb4383d742f0eba Thanks I am glad you apperciate the art work. There is a fairly easy way to do what you are wanting to do, but I will never tell :)

I hope I don't come across as being to blunt. To show that I am a nice guy I will share with you a secert or three. You might want to make sure you have the following pieces by August. Anakin CS3, Dash UINV, and Baron Fel.

Have a good day

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 Post subject: Re: Custom DotF Cards?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:22 pm 
Unnamed Wookiee
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LESHIPPY wrote:
So, does that answer your question about the drawn characters? Personally I would figure 6 hours per character if I were drawing them and that would be pushing it. But I can't draw people well. Any way I hope you get an understanding of where I am coming from.

I very much understand sir that drawing images for the cards is both time and cost intensive. I myself have spent hundreds of hours drawing deckplans for space transports for the RPG for over a decade so we are on the same page. ;)

All things considered and being equal what is the difference of doctoring photos of the minis and doing the same to say a scanned comic panel or Video game screen cap?

I suppose putting no character image on the cards is out of the question? 8-)
LESHIPPY wrote:
I hope I don't come across as being to blunt.

You can be as blunt as you want. You are in charge. My advice and recommendations are just that "advice and recommendations". If you didn't like something about one of my ship's, I would take it under consideration and if you were right, I would fix it and give you credit. You are under no obligation to give me anything and anything you do give me is a gift to be cherished. :D

LESHIPPY wrote:
To show that I am a nice guy I will share with you a secert or three.

Deeds speak louder than words. DotF is all the proof I need sir. Thank you. I read the thread and understand your artwork policy. I don't agree with it but I understand it.

With that in mind, I would officially like to suggest you consider producing a sheet of artwork for the model bases so we have something that we can glue to the undersides of our customs. ;) I was going to make mine black with gray letters but I suspect if you guys do it, we will get more of the US Mint quality rainbow gradient kaleidoscope effects. ;)

LESHIPPY wrote:
You might want to make sure you have the following pieces by August. Anakin CS3, Dash UINV, and Baron Fel.

A cherished gift. I thank you. I own Dash and the good baron. I will prepare them for battle.

As for Anakin I despise the Prequels and the whinny little brat. I would just assume part the model out for his left and right lightsaber-holding hands but I would not do such a thing as their might be players here with weak constitutions and sympathy for George Lucas' greatest failures. :D :D :D

Again thank you very much for your help clearing things up, for listening, and thank you extremely for the advanced intelligence. [heads off to Troll and Toad grinning widely] :D :D :D

Yes LESHIPPY, you do in fact rock!!! :D Be well brother...

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 Post subject: Re: Custom DotF Cards?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:59 pm 
Imperial Dignitaries
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OK here is the difference between drawn artwork and photographed art work. Basically you are trying to compare apples to coconuts, but I will explain it a bit better.

It takes me about a hour to takes photo of a dozen minis or so. Then it takes another 30 minutes each to mask out the back ground. The masking part would be the same for either hand drawn work or photos. So I can have a dozen minis ready for cards in about 7 hours if I am not intruppted.

Unless the community can produce a person that is willing and able to produce hand drawn art work for a dozen pieces in an hour, I think we will be sticking with the photos.

I am not a copywrite lawyer nor do I play on on TV. But alll the photos are are produced by the community. We can't just go pull images from comic books, video games, or dvds. While technically I know that it is possible. But it is outright stealing. Just becasue people post these things on the net doesn't mean it is legal. I hope this clears things up as much as possible. Dealing with copyright issues at work I know there is much debate on what can and can't be used and when it can be used.

So let me very clear on this. The V-set designers and I would discuss the possabilty of drawn art work if a member of the community choose to step up and say hey this is something that i would do for the game. But the art work has to be high quality. I know we are not going to make the cards look worse than the presently do. The are work needs to be done and have all final approval by May 1st. This way it works into the rest of the prodction timeline of the V-set.


Another reason for using the photos is that it shows the player what the recommended mini is.

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 Post subject: Re: Custom DotF Cards?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:35 pm 
Black Sun Thug
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Artwork ... that challenge may have been the biggest of doing the New Lost Twenty; any intelligent group of players can agree on stats after a fairly short debate, but "creating images" for the cards took 80% of the time. I for one won't argue/quibble about the artwork you use. It serves its purpose to give an idea of what mini should be used And if its legal who am I to argue? I'm a teacher not an attorney. If it can be done fairly quicky, even better.


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