logo

All times are UTC - 6 hours

Mark forums read


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Guri, Black Sun Lieutenant
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:10 am 
Imperial Dignitaries
Imperial Dignitaries
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:15 pm
Posts: 193
Location: Washington, USA
Wanted to develop Guri into the fearsome beat-stick she should be with the game speed of today. I placed her at the same cost as Dengar, RS (which is a bit ironic). I basically removed all access to CE unless you are willing to pay an additional 30 points for the lowest cost Xizor. She has ranged attack but, similar to Dengar, RS, it is only for 10 damage. Granted she has cunning, but cunning has it's limitations. There is a possible 60 damage first turn of a round so there is potential with the tactical control of the game, but it is no worse than Han, GH. Additionally, with activation control, Dengar has the potential for 80 damage after the first turn from range.

Dengar has evade to avoid ranged damage. Guri compensates with stealth which makes it more difficult for targeting, but accurate shot is the effective counter.

Next I analyzed Jareal who has triple attack with a similar ability to inflict additional damage to adjacent target, though limited to droid types and she has similar base stats. Jareal also has the abilities for avoidance of ranged and melee damage which Guri doesn't have; but, once again, stealth is a partially compensating factor with additional boost to base stats. The adjacent 10 damage boost now applies to all adjacent. There is also the standard speed for Guri vice speed 8; and, once again, Guri has extremely limited access to any CE's.

I also took a look at the previous Guri. With the reduction in access to CEs would lower her cost from the original 25. I also added a very limited version of the Disruptive ability. Overall, I believe she is balanced and representative of Guri, though she is open for critique.

Guri, Black Sun Lieutenant

Cost 45

Hit points 100
Defense 20
Attack 13
Damage 20

Unique
Human Replica Droid (Counts as both a Droid and a non-Droid; non-living; not subject to critical hits; subject to commander effects)
Melee
Triple Attack
Cunning Attack
Greater Mobile Attack
Stealth
Twin Blaster 10 (Replaces attacks: sight; make 2 attacks against 1 target at +10 Attack and 10 Damage. These count as non-melee attacks.)
Black Sun LT (Suppresses enemy Black Sun CE when within 6 squares. Enemy characters do not benefit from any Black Sun commander effects when targeted by this character.
Characters named Xizor and Commander Effects granted by characters named Xizor are immune to this ability.)
Xizor's trust (This character does not benefit from any commander effects unless a character named Xizor is part of your squad.)

_________________
325 Jawas, 265 Jawa Scouts, 181 Jawa scavengers, 99 Jawa traders, 18 Jawa on Ronto...and counting.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Guri, Black Sun Lieutenant
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:14 am 
Warmaster
Warmaster
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:06 pm
Posts: 572
Location: Lexington Park, MD
Czerka would give her Triple, Twin, Greater Mobile, Hand-to-hand, Cunning. That's 180 damage on an unactivated adjacent enemy. All for 28 points!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Guri, Black Sun Lieutenant
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:00 am 
Master of the Order
Master of the Order
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 2:46 pm
Posts: 7960
Location: West Chester, OH (near Cincinnati)
Yeah, with those stats, she'd be WAY more than 28 points. Solid ideas though. A bit too much of an Black Sun counter IMO though, which makes her too specialized in that regard. However, the rest of her abilities are sickening. As demosthenes pointed out, by adding a Czerka you'd be at 41 points total, and could dish out 180 damage at a +17 attack. Or even 120 damage with a +17 from range. Compare that to Mara Jade Jedi who has to be adjacent to do 120 damage, AND spend a Force Point.

So, her stats are sickeningly awesome for those 28 points. Heck, compare her to Dash Rendar RS (which, maybe that's what you meant...not Dengar, RS?). Dash can only do 80 damage total on his own, and that's with a +10 attack total. Guri already starts at a higher attack. Not to mention the fact that she has 30 more HP, and 5 higher defense. That only should warrant about a 15 point difference, IMO.

And honestly, using this piece in a Mith'rawn squad with the 30 point Xizor, that would make her a +21 for 30 damage at range, all the time, and would be +21 for 40 damage against adjacent enemies. That's potentially 240 damage from a single piece.

Again...cool ideas, but WAY too powerful for that cost.

_________________
-Aaron
Mand'alor
"You either die a hero, or you live to see yourself become the villain."
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Guri, Black Sun Lieutenant
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:36 am 
Big Bad Brad
Big Bad Brad
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:14 am
Posts: 5344
nuksaa wrote:

Xizor's trust:This character does not benefit from any commander effects unless a character named Xizor is part of your squad.



She's a Droid so that's already accounted for. If the intent was that Xizor allows her to benefit from Commander Effects you need to reword it.

Xizor's Trust: If a character whose name contains Xizor is within 6, you may benefit from Commander Effects regardless of any Special Abilities that may prevent you from doing so.

Note: This would also get by Disruptive, but follows precedents, so is a fun side effect.

Edit: Only as long as Guri is the one being Disrupted. If the Commander is, then it wouldn't matter.

_________________
"200 or 2"
"Consistency is the key, not crying"


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Guri, Black Sun Lieutenant
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:43 am 
Dark Lord of the Sith
Dark Lord of the Sith
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:38 am
Posts: 1959
I think she has to have melee. It would balance out the whole czerka problem and give the Black sun the Beat stick they have been needing for a while. I would still up the cost a little though.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Guri, Black Sun Lieutenant
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:45 pm 
Imperial Dignitaries
Imperial Dignitaries
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:15 pm
Posts: 193
Location: Washington, USA
The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
nuksaa wrote:

Xizor's trust:This character does not benefit from any commander effects unless a character named Xizor is part of your squad.



She's a Droid so that's already accounted for. If the intent was that Xizor allows her to benefit from Commander Effects you need to reword it.


Quote:
And honestly, using this piece in a Mith'rawn squad with the 30 point Xizor, that would make her a +21 for 30 damage at range, all the time, and would be +21 for 40 damage against adjacent enemies. That's potentially 240 damage from a single piece.


Incorrect. There are CE which effect droids. This ability is to account for those CE which target droids such as Grevious, SotJ and the only time she would benefit from the droid targeted CEs would be if Xizor was there. The intent is not to cross the CE droid lines.

And I totally forgot the Czerka...

If she had an Ability which allowed her to have a ranged attack, thinking about Grevious, DAC's Blaster 20, would the Czerka's ability still be able to make it Twin if the base damage is 10?

_________________
325 Jawas, 265 Jawa Scouts, 181 Jawa scavengers, 99 Jawa traders, 18 Jawa on Ronto...and counting.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Guri, Black Sun Lieutenant
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 5:49 pm 
Warmaster
Warmaster
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:24 pm
Posts: 500
Location: Dallas/Fort Worth
I believe Blaster X would benefit from Greviouses CE.

I was working on a version of Guri that had the ability: Human Replica Droid (Counts as both a Droid and a non-Droid; non-living; subject to critical hits and commander effects). I think that this might work well with your Xizor's Trust ability.

_________________
Words to live by: Faith, Virtue, Honor, Courage, Knowledge & Personal Responsibility


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Guri, Black Sun Lieutenant
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:14 pm 
Imperial Dignitaries
Imperial Dignitaries
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:15 pm
Posts: 193
Location: Washington, USA
TreebeardTheEnt wrote:
I believe Blaster X would benefit from Greviouses CE.

I was working on a version of Guri that had the ability: Human Replica Droid (Counts as both a Droid and a non-Droid; non-living; subject to critical hits and commander effects). I think that this might work well with your Xizor's Trust ability.


Bit confused on the first part. The question is if she had the ability Blaster: Replaces attack. Sight. Can make an attack with based damage 10, would the Czerka ability kick in?

Not sure I would agree with Human Replica Droid. Don't believe that would represent Guri.

_________________
325 Jawas, 265 Jawa Scouts, 181 Jawa scavengers, 99 Jawa traders, 18 Jawa on Ronto...and counting.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Guri, Black Sun Lieutenant
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:41 pm 
Master of the Order
Master of the Order
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 2:46 pm
Posts: 7960
Location: West Chester, OH (near Cincinnati)
Not represent Guri? Don't understand why. That's what she was....a Human Replica Droid.

Anyways, the answer is, yes, if you gave her Blaster 10, then she could get Twin from the Czerka. This precedent is already set by the fact that Grievous can get Jolt via the Czerka on his Blaster 20. Incidentally, this exact reason is why the glossary definition for Twin Blaster 10 on the new DOTF Ben Skywalker specifically says it doesn't stack with Twin from any other source.

_________________
-Aaron
Mand'alor
"You either die a hero, or you live to see yourself become the villain."
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Guri, Black Sun Lieutenant
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:49 pm 
Big Bad Brad
Big Bad Brad
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:14 am
Posts: 5344
LoboStele wrote:
Not represent Guri? Don't understand why. That's what she was....a Human Replica Droid.



I think he was referring to Treebeards SA, which was nothing more than a renamed Cyborg.
Honestly, Cyborg wouldn't be bad on a toned down version of Guri along with Xizor's Trust...makes for an interesting piece.

_________________
"200 or 2"
"Consistency is the key, not crying"


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Guri, Black Sun Lieutenant
PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 5:49 am 
Imperial Dignitaries
Imperial Dignitaries
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:15 pm
Posts: 193
Location: Washington, USA
LoboStele wrote:
Not represent Guri? Don't understand why. That's what she was....a Human Replica Droid.


I know she was a HRD, that wasn't my point. She isn't exactly a mercenary and she is a droid. I don't think Cyborg would be appropriate for the area of this piece. The piece I am representing is during her time as Xizor's assassin up until she is reprogrammed. Perhaps a Cyborg type ability would be representative of her after her reprogramming.

_________________
325 Jawas, 265 Jawa Scouts, 181 Jawa scavengers, 99 Jawa traders, 18 Jawa on Ronto...and counting.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Guri, Black Sun Lieutenant
PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:27 am 
Mandalore
Mandalore
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:43 pm
Posts: 1009
Location: Southern Illinois
For purposes of gameplay, Cyborg, and by extention Human Replica Droid, would be describing her as what sheis physically, not what she is programmed to do or how to act.

Shes got the cybernetic parts through her entire recorded Star Wars existence (unless there is some crazy background story I havent heard of), so shes a cyborg (or HRD if you prefer) the entire time, no matter what she's programmed for, in universe.

_________________
WotC: 890/890
V-Set: 142/142

Wotc GTL: 52ish
Gamers GTL: 2 (dalsiandon, urbanjedi)

fingersandteeth wrote:
Also t4 for override and a cheeky flame.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Guri, Black Sun Lieutenant
PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:25 am 
Warmaster
Warmaster
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:24 pm
Posts: 500
Location: Dallas/Fort Worth
The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
I think he was referring to Treebeards SA, which was nothing more than a renamed Cyborg.
Honestly, Cyborg wouldn't be bad on a toned down version of Guri along with Xizor's Trust...makes for an interesting piece.


Not quite Cyborg renamed, more like the opposite of Cyborg. Guri is a droid that has living tissue on the outside to make here appear human but at the core is a machine. Thus I changed one word of the ability and re-named it HRD the change to non-living is so she would be subject to Ion guns and other abilities that target droids. I suppose you could remove the critical hits part of the ability, but I don't remember how susceptible to damage she is (I have not read a book with her in it in a long time).

Revised: Human Replica Droid (Counts as both a Droid and a non-Droid; non-living; not subject to critical hits and subject to commander effects)

_________________
Words to live by: Faith, Virtue, Honor, Courage, Knowledge & Personal Responsibility


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Guri, Black Sun Lieutenant
PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:07 pm 
Imperial Dignitaries
Imperial Dignitaries
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:15 pm
Posts: 193
Location: Washington, USA
- Added the HRD definition
- Removed Hand-to-Hand and just made base damage 20
- Added Twin Blaster 10
- Placed cost at 45 - thought on cost is the only way to benefit from CE's is to add 30 point Xizor which brings her cost to 75 to benefit from CE's

Thoughts?

_________________
325 Jawas, 265 Jawa Scouts, 181 Jawa scavengers, 99 Jawa traders, 18 Jawa on Ronto...and counting.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Guri, Black Sun Lieutenant
PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 10:30 am 
Warmaster
Warmaster
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:24 pm
Posts: 500
Location: Dallas/Fort Worth
nuksaa wrote:
Guri, Black Sun Lieutenant

Cost 45

Hit points 100
Defense 20
Attack 13
Damage 20

Unique
Human Replica Droid (Counts as both a Droid and a non-Droid; non-living; not subject to critical hits; subject to commander effects)
Melee
Triple Attack
Cunning Attack
Greater Mobile Attack
Stealth
Twin Blaster 10 (Replaces attacks: sight; make 2 attacks against 1 target at +10 Attack and 10 Damage. These count as non-melee attacks.)
Black Sun LT (Suppresses enemy Black Sun CE when within 6 squares. Enemy characters do not benefit from any Black Sun commander effects when targeted by this character. Characters named Xizor and Commander Effects granted by characters named Xizor are immune to this ability.)
Xizor's trust (This character does not benefit from any commander effects unless a character named Xizor is part of your squad.)


Looks beter. After reading the Wookieepedia artical on her (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Guri) I think you might change Black Sun LT to a mixture of Distruptive and Relay Orders that is Black Sun Specific. I was thinking: Suppresses enemy Black Sun commander effects when within 6 squares. Each allied commander can count distance from this character (including this character) as well as from itself for the purpose of Black Sun commander effects. Characters named Xizor and Commander Effects granted by characters named Xizor are immune to this ability.)

It's a bit wordy. I was trying to make it so that Guri was subject to the Black Sun Commander effects board wide because of her possion in the Black Sun.

_________________
Words to live by: Faith, Virtue, Honor, Courage, Knowledge & Personal Responsibility


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours

Mark forums read

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Jedi Knights style by Scott Stubblefield