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 Post subject: Darth Bane & Darth Zannah - stats to follow
PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:14 am 
Jedi Knight
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Darth Bane in Orbalisk Armor, The Dark Lord of the Sith
Sith
88
Hit Points: 180
Attack 14
Defense: 20
Damage: 30


Special: Unique; Melee
Double Attack;
Brute Force If this character does not move on its turn it gets +2 Attack.
Orbalisk Regenerative Armor (Whenever this character would take damage reduce the damage by 10, if this character does not move on its turn remove 20 damage from this character, he can not exceed his maximum Hit Points)
Orbalisk Poison (If this character takes damage from Force Powers with Lightening, it takes double the damage dealt and loses Orbalisk Regenerative Armor until this characters next turn)
Rule of Two (only 1 Unique character with a Force rating may be in a squad with this character, that character may spend this characters Force Points once per turn and its own Force Points once per turn)

Force 3. Force Renewal 2

Master of the Force 2 (May spend Force points up to 2 times in a single turn)
Lightsaber Assault (Force 1, replaces attacks: Make 2 attacks)
Lightsaber Sweep (Force 1, replaces attacks: Can attack each adjacent enemy once)
Orbalisk Sith Rage (Force 4, This character may move 12 extra squares on its turn and attack at + 4 attack and + 10 Damage. At the end of its turn, this character must make a save of 16. On a failure, this character takes 30 Damage.)
--------

Darth Zannah, Sith Sorceress
Sith
68
Hit Points: 100
Defense: 19
Attack: 9
Damage: 20

Special Abilities
Melee Attack Can attack only adjacent enemies
Double Attack On her turn, this character can make 1 extra attack instead of moving
Djem So Style Whenever this character is hit by a melee attack, make a save of 11. On a success, this character can make an immediate attack against that attacker.
Parry When hit by a melee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11

Force Powers
Force 3, Renewal 1

Force Sense Force 1, usable only on this character's turn: Enemy characters lose Stealth for the rest of the round
Sith Sorcery (Force 3, usable on this characters turn if she does not move; Until this character's next turn, she gains the following Force ability:Dark Side Tendrils [Living enemy characters within 6 squares take 10 damage for each square they move])

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Last edited by Cerous Mutor on Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:19 am, edited 17 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Darth Bane & Darth Zannah - stats to follow
PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 10:19 am 
Sith Apprentice
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Bane is a beast!

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 Post subject: Re: Darth Bane & Darth Zannah - stats to follow
PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 10:38 am 
Unnamed Stormtrooper
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Those are fantastic!

Love Bane.


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 Post subject: Re: Darth Bane & Darth Zannah - stats to follow
PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 5:48 pm 
Unnamed Wookiee
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Hmm, I think give Zannah twin maybe and boost cost up to 75 or 80. I kind of think 100 hp is lacking for a 68 point piece, so I think with twin she will be maybe all offense? This is my first advice on custom stats, so its maybe not accurate. I love the figures, they look awesome!

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 Post subject: Re: Darth Bane & Darth Zannah - stats to follow
PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:12 pm 
One of the Sith on Malgus' Shuttle
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I'm very confused by Dark Side Tendrals. From what I understand, when this character uses the Force ability, all character within 6 squares who move take 10 damage and make a save of 11. If the save is successful they take 20 damage and can move normal. Correct? I think it needs to be rewritten and I can help you match how WotC would have probably worded it if given a bit more info. Does the ability last until her next activation or until the end of the skirmish? And it only replaces her movement but not her attacks?


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 Post subject: Re: Darth Bane & Darth Zannah - stats to follow
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:37 am 
Jedi Knight
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jedispyder wrote:
I'm very confused by Dark Side Tendrals. From what I understand, when this character uses the Force ability, all character within 6 squares who move take 10 damage and make a save of 11. If the save is successful they take 20 damage and can move normal. Correct? I think it needs to be rewritten and I can help you match how WotC would have probably worded it if given a bit more info. Does the ability last until her next activation or until the end of the skirmish? And it only replaces her movement but not her attacks?



Thanks!

It should be any Enemy character within 6 squares takes 10 damage for every square they move within 6 squares of Zannah, if the make a save of 11 they take a straight 20 and can move without fear of extra damage per square. I think just removing the save of 11 sorts the problem. example

Dark Side Tendrals Force 3, replaces movement: range 6, non-Droids only; Enemies characters within 6 squares of Darth Zannah take 10 damage for every square they move until the start of her next turn.

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 Post subject: Re: Darth Bane & Darth Zannah - stats to follow
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:52 am 
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Bane looks freaking awesome. What'd you use to build him? A heroclix of the Thing or Darkseid or something?

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 Post subject: Re: Darth Bane & Darth Zannah - stats to follow
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:38 pm 
Jedi Knight
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LoboStele wrote:
Bane looks freaking awesome. What'd you use to build him? A heroclix of the Thing or Darkseid or something?


Primal Heroes Booster pack 1.
Male Goliath Barbarian for bane. Chopped, reposed, plenty of greenstuff for his armour.
I used this mini as a base, I couldnt find a beastly enough one quick enough for my enthusiams! I could have used a Hero/horro clix as a base though, Rostu vampire i think was the one I was trying to get a hold of.
Deathlock Wight for Zannah became Zannah, although afterwords I realised I could have used the Female Elf Druid, shaving off the bits i didnt need and adding a double blade instead of the staff. Would have been easier.

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 Post subject: Re: Darth Bane & Darth Zannah - stats to follow
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 5:01 pm 
One of the Sith on Malgus' Shuttle
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Cerous Mutor wrote:
Thanks!

It should be any Enemy character within 6 squares takes 10 damage for every square they move within 6 squares of Zannah, if the make a save of 11 they take a straight 20 and can move without fear of extra damage per square. I think just removing the save of 11 sorts the problem. example

Dark Side Tendrals Force 3, replaces movement: range 6, non-Droids only; Enemies characters within 6 squares of Darth Zannah take 10 damage for every square they move until the start of her next turn.

Ok, makes sense now. I think this wording will work (and match what we've started working with in DotF):
Dark Side Tendrils (Force 3, usable on this characters turn if she does not move; Until this character's next activation, she gains the following Force ability: Living enemy characters within 6 squares take 10 damage for each square they move)
Definitely a fun ability, very lethal with Swap. You could set her up in the beginning of the round and literally force characters to take 60 damage to get adjacent to her or risk losing their activation. Proper placement is definitely key.


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 Post subject: Re: Darth Bane & Darth Zannah - stats to follow
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:24 am 
Jedi Knight
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Perfect! Thank you very much!
Some one suggested an alterante version.

Dark Tendrals: Force 3: Replaces turn: 20 damage to each character in line of sight. Normal targeting rules apply. Activate each large or smaller character affected, save 11.

now i'm torn. this is a good version too.

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 Post subject: Re: Darth Bane & Darth Zannah - stats to follow
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:00 pm 
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I have some issues with bane....

First, redux damage and regen is a bit much, pick one or the other.

Second, OSR needs to replace attacks or something, otherwise bane can make 6 attacks in one turn and teleport across the map. Also, him gaining savage is kinda pointless as he has twin attack...so where is the downside of him being savage?

Third, Force throw is a little...confusing...reword it some.

Lastly, he needs to cost somewhere in the 120-130 range with those abilities. Think about it, every round he can do 6 attacks for 190 damage, 250 against jedi, spread out over three targets anywhere on the map. Its a little much...

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 Post subject: Re: Darth Bane & Darth Zannah - stats to follow
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:41 am 
Jedi Knight
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Jedi_Master wrote:
I have some issues with bane....

First, redux damage and regen is a bit much, pick one or the other.

Second, OSR needs to replace attacks or something, otherwise bane can make 6 attacks in one turn and teleport across the map. Also, him gaining savage is kinda pointless as he has twin attack...so where is the downside of him being savage?

Third, Force throw is a little...confusing...reword it some.

Lastly, he needs to cost somewhere in the 120-130 range with those abilities. Think about it, every round he can do 6 attacks for 190 damage, 250 against jedi, spread out over three targets anywhere on the map. Its a little much...



I'm not sure which part your looking at?
ORA is a damage reduction as well as heal, at the cost of being able to totally own him if you use lightening on him.
If ORA still seems to much then I can add 'and loses Orballisk Armour until his next turn.' meaning he loses all damage reduction and healing abilities, which is actually closer to what happens in the book! I like it!
OSR cost 5 Force points. He can do it once on his first turn, and then he is spent. Or you wait to build his force powers.
The easiest solution is to give him less force points
Force Points 2; Renewal 1
As for savage, the whole point of that is the player loses control of their character and he loses turn ‘remove 20 damage’ because he has to move! Making ORA just a damage reduction for 2 rounds! Again I’m not sure what you are looking at on this? Yes Savage on him would be like putting a bull in the china shop, but that’s the point, its still going to get hurt. He hits hard but goes down quickly if you know how.
He is in no way worth over 100, you need to dial that one back and look at him again.

His damage out put is a lot less that you think. Where do you get 250 against Jedi from? Original Bane can hit 1 jedi for 200 damage in on go if played correctly! This one has no jedi bonuses.
He only has 5 Force Points on activation. Everything he has is expensive to use. Again, I'm not sure your seeing the pros against cons with this one.






Darth Bane in Orbalisk Armor, The Dark Lord of the Sith
Sith
88
Hit Points: 200
Attack 13
Defense: 20
Damage: 30


Special: Unique; Melee
Twin Attack;
Djem So Style Mastery Whenever this character is hit by a melee attack, make a save of 11. On a success, this character can make an immediate attack against that attacker with +10 Damage.
Orbalisk Regenerative Armor (Whenever this character would take damage reduce the damage by 10, if this character does not move on its turn remove 20 damage from this character, he can not exceed his maximum Hit Points)
Orbalisk Poison (If this character takes damage from Force Powers with Lightening, it takes double the damage dealt and loses Orbalisk Regenerative Armor until this characters next turn)

Force 3. Force Renewal 2

Master of the Force 2 (May spend Force points up to 2 times in a single turn)
Lightsaber Assault Force 1, replaces attacks: Make 2 attacks
Force Throw (Force 3, range 6; 40 damage to target enemy; move target 4 squares and target is activated; save 11, 20 damage to target, move target 2 squares and target is not activated)
Orbalisk Sith Rage (Force 5, usable only on this character's turn; sight. This character may immediatly move adjacent to target enemy character and attack at + 4 attack and + 10 Damage. At the end of its turn, this character must make a save of 11. On a failure, this character takes 30 Damage and gains Savage until the end of its next turn.)


---------


Darth Bane 82
Counts As: Bane
Hit Points: 200
Defense: 20
Attack: 16
Damage: 30
Special AbilitiesUnique
Jedi Hunter +4 Attack and +10 Damage against enemies with Force ratings
Melee Attack Can attack only adjacent enemies
Double Attack On his turn, this character can make 1 extra attack instead of moving
Force PowersForce 2
Force Renewal 1 This character gets 1 Force point each time he activates
Lightsaber Assault Force 1, replaces attacks: Make 2 attacks
Lightsaber Sweep Force 1, replaces attacks: Can attack each adjacent enemy once
Lightsaber Throw Force 1, replaces attacks: Attack 1 enemy within 6 squares
Master of the Force 2 May spend Force points up to 2 times in a single turn
Sith Rage Force 1: +10 Damage on all attacks this turn
Sith Sorcery Force 2, usable only on this character's turn: Enemy characters within 6 squares are considered activated this round; save 11

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 Post subject: Re: Darth Bane & Darth Zannah - stats to follow
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:09 pm 
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Cerous Mutor wrote:
ORA is a damage reduction as well as heal, at the cost of being able to totally own him if you use lightening on him.


The problem with trying to balance one ability with one another character has is that not every character has it. It would be like me giving grievous DR 20 because he is part armored droid but making him vulnerable to ion by making it do double damage, sounds good on paper, but in cost the dr 20 is worth 15-30 while vun to ion makes it -3 ish.

Bane dr 10, regen 20 is around the +15 mark. Lightning own is only maybe a -5 at most. Its bad, its just not the most common thing to happen.

Cerous Mutor wrote:
If ORA still seems to much then I can add 'and loses Orballisk Armour until his next turn.' meaning he loses all damage reduction and healing abilities, which is actually closer to what happens in the book! I like it!


I like the flavor of that too ^^

Cerous Mutor wrote:
OSR cost 5 Force points. He can do it once on his first turn, and then he is spent. Or you wait to build his force powers.
The easiest solution is to give him less force points
Force Points 2; Renewal 1


It is still a beast of an ability. Think about it, turn 2 I can move bane 30 squares through any terrain, attack at 40 then 30, then use assault for 4 more 30 damage attacks. 190 damage against anything on the map bane can see, that is a lot over powered, even with the possibility of taking damage and gaining savage.

A good fix for that would be to make it like charging attack. Replaces turn, move 12 squares, +4 attack, +10 damage. Then you can still make it 14 squares (extra force point) and still deal 70 damage. Then remove the damage half, leave the savage if you want, and cost it at 2-3 force. More function, less overpower.

Cerous Mutor wrote:
As for savage, the whole point of that is the player loses control of their character and he loses turn ‘remove 20 damage’ because he has to move! Making ORA just a damage reduction for 2 rounds! Again I’m not sure what you are looking at on this?


Here is my thought, if bane just teleported across the map, killed the opponents highest cost unit, and is likely next to another unit or two, how is savage going to do anything? He is already adjacent to something (most of the time) and if that something moves there is a 100% chance of death (twin off the aoo, then LS assault twin for 4 more, 6 attacks at 30 damage a pop.) It just seems redundant because, honestly, I am not going to give you a free 60 damage on me when I can hopefully damage you (though your djem so counter is going to be a pain in the butt).

Cerous Mutor wrote:
He is in no way worth over 100, you need to dial that one back and look at him again.
His damage out put is a lot less that you think. Where do you get 250 against Jedi from? Original Bane can hit 1 jedi for 200 damage in on go if played correctly! This one has no jedi bonuses.
He only has 5 Force Points on activation. Everything he has is expensive to use. Again, I'm not sure your seeing the pros against cons with this one.


Yeah, I thought he had JH, my fault. But here is the thing, as is bane can do the following.

Move across the map and deal 190 damage to ANYTHING. Original bane could move what, 10, and hit for 40 against a jedi, 30 against anything else or 8 and hit for 60, 80 against a jedi. Nowhere near as scary.

Old bane could do 80 to a based jedi, no retaliation when the jedi attacks him. This guy can do 60 on his attack, 70 on EACH opponents attack, and only takes 10 per attack (its not DR, its a minus, meaning not even lightsabers can bypass it.)

Regen and damage reduction...on a 200 HP character...even if there is a single way in a million to remove it...is still insane. It will take 20 hits from a 20 damage dealing character to drop him, assuming he moves every round. If he holds still even once, boom, 2 more attacks. So even the 100+ point luke would die to him without him taking even a scratch.

Lastly, this beast has twin, not double. Double means 2 attacks, no matter what, even with assault its just 2. Twin means with assault you have 4 attacks, 2 per target, for 120 total damage.

So yeah, long story short, would you use 82 point bane or pay 6 more for your bane? Yours every day of the year. Costing is hard but still, as is, he is well above the 100 point range do to his damage output and insane number of hitpoints. Compare him to the warmaster, remove the dr save, and give lah regen 20 and you should see what I mean by uber tank. Thing is, the warmaster can only do about 60 damage on a good day, this bane is in the 200 damage range.

If you chose the DR or regen, drop the power of the OSR as suggested, change twin to double or remove LS assault and throw and djem so, he would be in the 80 point range again. As is, I think my 120-130 point was low. Try him as is against a 200 point squad and you will see what I mean.

And, by the way, very nice job on the sculpts.

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 Post subject: Re: Darth Bane & Darth Zannah - stats to follow
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:37 pm 
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I can see you point but I still sceptical. With that many power booster out there for other factions and the Sith primarly being single piece power houses, so how about

Darth Bane in Orbalisk Armor, The Dark Lord of the Sith
Sith
88
Hit Points: 180
Attack 14
Defense: 20
Damage: 30


Special: Unique; Melee
Double Attack;
Brute Force If this character does not move on its turn it gets +2 Attack.
Orbalisk Regenerative Armor (Whenever this character would take damage reduce the damage by 10, if this character does not move on its turn remove 20 damage from this character, he can not exceed his maximum Hit Points)
Orbalisk Poison (If this character takes damage from Force Powers with Lightening, it takes double the damage dealt and loses Orbalisk Regenerative Armor until this characters next turn)


Force 3. Force Renewal 2

Master of the Force 2 (May spend Force points up to 2 times in a single turn)
Lightsaber Assault (Force 1, replaces attacks: Make 2 attacks)
Lightsaber Sweep (Force 1, replaces attacks: Can attack each adjacent enemy once)


Orbalisk Sith Rage (Force 4, usable only on this character's turn; sight. This character may immediatly move adjacent to target enemy character and attack at + 4 attack and + 10 Damage. At the end of its turn, this character must make a save of 16. On a failure, this character takes 30 Damage.)

or


Orbalisk Sith Rage (Force 4, This character may move 12 extra squares on its turn and attack at + 4 attack and + 10 Damage. At the end of its turn, this character must make a save of 16. On a failure, this character takes 30 Damage.)

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"...Power Made Flesh..."

"...he is a wound in the Force..."

Dinuir ni verda kyr'am ner


Last edited by Cerous Mutor on Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:06 am, edited 8 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Darth Bane & Darth Zannah - stats to follow
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:43 pm 
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the rewording definitely balances the ability, while still keeping it playable and flavourful. I think the second version is good, it is like giving him master speed and momentum at the cost of force points.

sculpts are great. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Darth Bane & Darth Zannah - stats to follow
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:38 pm 
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Ruhk wrote:
the rewording definitely balances the ability, while still keeping it playable and flavourful. I think the second version is good, it is like giving him master speed and momentum at the cost of force points.

sculpts are great. :)



Thats quite high praise from a 'statser' of your calibur!

Thank you :D

I like the first version but see plus's of both. Which is better?

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 Post subject: Re: Darth Bane & Darth Zannah - stats to follow
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:43 pm 
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The second osr is a good way to do it, still very powerful but not overdone anymore. The rest looks good. He is a beast of a tank right now but his damage is tame so it ballances well. Looks good to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Darth Bane & Darth Zannah - stats to follow
PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:45 pm 
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thanks for the help

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 Post subject: Re: Darth Bane & Darth Zannah - stats to follow
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:10 am 
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Awesome job and the Stats and the Figures were Unbelievable!


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