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 Post subject: 200 DCI number of turns
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:38 am 
Moff Disra
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We had a little 8 man tourney this weekend. I'm seeing a trend in 200 DCI games.

You must run Dodonna, San (or Ozzel). NTMTO or MTB is very helpful (and cheap).

I had a game that lasted 3 rounds. It was his first time facing my Caamsi Nobles and he really had a difficult time playing. Another game lasted 13 rounds (they each only had 6-7 figs and were generating FP with renewel. Most games went 7-8 turns.

With this in mind, could a stall squad win a serious 200 DCI tourney (granted you would be hated, but you won).
Dodonna
2 big shooters
Lobot (free activations and Gambit earners)
3 cheap mobile shooters
8 Ugo's

Plan for the game to last 4-5 rounds (dodonna makes it easy to not appear like you are slow playing). Earn Gambit 3-4 rounds, don't lose any of your fodder to poor placement (hide them well) and kill 1-2 of your opponents figs for points (it really does not matter what).

What do you think?


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 Post subject: Re: 200 DCI number of turns
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:16 pm 
Mandalore
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I think you throw garm bel iblis into the mix for more fodder/gambit collectors.

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 Post subject: Re: 200 DCI number of turns
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 5:21 pm 
Moff Disra
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Luke_Skywalker wrote:
I think you throw garm bel iblis into the mix for more fodder/gambit collectors.

That is giving up 15 points (I hope you have some figs that can benefit from his CE).

Now you are playing Rebels or NR. NR only has access to MTB (no tempo fig). I don't think that's worth it. Rebels has Dodonna (sounds okay). What could you bring in outside of a Elite commando that is worth paying 15 extra points?


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 Post subject: Re: 200 DCI number of turns
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:01 pm 
Mandalore
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NR has dodonna as well. And I was thinking Jango Fett as the main offensive big shooter, or possibly Loda. Forgetting the idea of a shooter and going with a piece that simply can Stand up for a long time.

Getting back to your original post I think when you look to fill those big shooter holes, you should look in the neighborhood of 40-50 points, so in rebels you could grab Han, smuggler and Luke's Speeder (Landspeeder is probably better).

If you are thinking Cheap mobile attackers, Lando Dashing Scoundrel fits your needs perfectly, you don't get much cheaper/better. I dont know where that leaves us though

47 Speeder
46 Han (93)
09 Dodonna (102)
27 Lobot (129)
8X3 Ugos (144)
18 Lando DS (162)

38 extra points, Either one other Bigger shooter or you could go with 2 under 20 points, I might suggest Princess Leia and a Bothan Noble.

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 Post subject: Re: 200 DCI number of turns
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:33 pm 
Moff Disra
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Thanks good point about NR Dodonna.

This entire squad type seems not much fun to play or play against. I'm not liking the tempo figs.


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 Post subject: Re: 200 DCI number of turns
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:05 pm 
Black Sun Thug
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For your squad Luke, I would add Ackbar and the Bothan. Ackbar turns Han into a auto 13 attack shooter, turns Lando into a full beast, and helps the Landspeeder as well. As with this type of squad you should more then likely get the bonus on all the attacks.


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 Post subject: Re: 200 DCI number of turns
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:23 pm 
Master of the Order
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Garm/Dodonna/Lobot + 119 pts. of filler

This can totally win with stall tactics as long as you don't appear to be playing slowly.

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 Post subject: Re: 200 DCI number of turns
PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:07 pm 
Name Calling Internet Bully
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Grand Moff Boris wrote:
Garm/Dodonna/Lobot + 119 pts. of filler

This can totally win with stall tactics as long as you don't appear to be playing slowly.


Of course the moment I see that squad on the table, I am calling the judge to watch our game for stalling :) And you better believe I will have the bigger piece in gambit for the tie breaker at the end of 3 rounds or whatever it ends up being.

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 Post subject: Re: 200 DCI number of turns
PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:36 pm 
Master of the Order
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I have been trying to respond with something similar to Bill for a while, but alas, darn computer issues. Anyways...

I agree, if it's a high-level competition, with large prizes on the line, you can bet that I will bug my opponent about playing quickly from the very beginning, and if they don't within the first 10-15 minutes, I'll be calling the judge over. People are starting to get this "30 seconds per activation" or something like that in their minds, instead of focusing on "winning the game within the time limit". Besides, playing squads like Garm/Dodonna/Lobot, you are inevitably going to have problem against certain other types of squads, and it only takes losing one actual major piece in order to cause a problem.

Bill's point is also very good that you're slightly limited as to what pieces you can run with this type of squad, and as such, your opponent will often times have a higher point cost piece, closer to the middle.

Also, you get completely hosed if you end up in a match-up where you have little-to-no cover around the gambit zone (mostly, hardboard Starship) as a good opponent will quickly pick off many of your reinforcement pieces early in the game.

I'm sure in the hands of a truly skilled opponent, you could do well with it, but in return, you're going to bear the brunt of everyone in the community looking down on you for stooping to that level, instead of playing a truly competitive squad and using your skill to win the game. I think someone who is lesser skilled may try these types of squads, because they know it gives them a huge advantage over other lesser skilled players, but any experienced player should know how to deftly win this kind of fight.

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 Post subject: Re: 200 DCI number of turns
PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:12 pm 
Master of the Order
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billiv15 wrote:
Grand Moff Boris wrote:
Garm/Dodonna/Lobot + 119 pts. of filler

This can totally win with stall tactics as long as you don't appear to be playing slowly.


Of course the moment I see that squad on the table, I am calling the judge to watch our game for stalling :) And you better believe I will have the bigger piece in gambit for the tie breaker at the end of 3 rounds or whatever it ends up being.


I think someone can win with this squad without intentionally playing slowly.

It completely outactivates virtually any other squad out there.

What do you do if this is my 119 pts.?
Ithorian Commander
Ewok x16
Han in Armor
Lando Dashing Scoundrel
Wicket
Ugnaught Demolitionist x3

For reinforcements with Garm, I bring in 5 Mon Cal Tech Specialists and 2 Bith Rebels (or Rebel Troopers). With Lobot, I bring in a Muun Tactics Broker and 4 Ewoks.

I don't have to play slow. I just wait for you to advance that "big piece" across the board and then I bum-rush it with my Ewoks. All I have to do is get far enough ahead that it won't really matter how many Ewoks you can kill in a round. :)

I am not advocating this as a good idea just saying it is something to be taken seriously.

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 Post subject: Re: 200 DCI number of turns
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:09 am 
Master of the Order
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Well, first of all, since we're talking 200 DCI here, I'm not really sure it's THAT big of a deal, since as far as I know, the only high-level 200 point tournaments have a couple boosters for prizes at the top. Now, if we were talking in terms of the GenCon Championship where $2000 was on the line, it'd be different, but I'm convinced the Garm/Lobot/Dodonna trick is even harder to pull off at 150 points, so it doesn't bother me there.

Still, I think Bill has a point. Boris, in your suggested build there, your highest hit point character is Garm Bel Iblis at 45 points. Almost every other squad in the book will have at least 1 character that is equal to or greater than that in points. All your opponent has to do is match you in gambit points throughout the game, and then run their big piece out to the middle right before the end. This is a piece of cake to do, especially if your opponent also has Lobot and can bring in 5 Gran Raiders, which you most likely will not be able to kill very easily. Sure, all your ewoks together could possibly do some damage, but even with the Ithorian Commander, Wicket, and Swarm, the most damage you will typically be able to do in a single round with them would be about 80-100 damage, as you'll still need to be rolling a 10 or higher in many cases against big pieces.

I certainly think it has some merit, but for the most part I think we're 'magazine racing' here, to steal the phrase from the car enthusiasts. If you think that type of squad really is that dangerous, then sit down and play it out multiple times, and see if you really can come out on top with it consistently.

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