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 Post subject: Where is GOWK at regionals?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 8:49 am 
Death Star Designers
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I found this interesting, ive looked through most of the touney reports and ive only found 3-4 GOWK squads as being played in Regionals this year. The reason i find this interesting is GOWK basicly comming back and making Melee much better has had a big effect on the meta IMO. Yet it seems that he isnt getting any play.

Also note most of the squads winning are mostly shooter squads that feature some character named Han Solo, Mara Jade, or Luke Skywalker's Speeder. All characters thats damage is nurfed by GOWK. There have been some melee teams winning like lancer and yobuck, but for the most part everything is shooting.

GOWK>Shooter builds, yet no GOWK, im just wondering why?

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 Post subject: Re: Where is GOWK at regionals?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:40 am 
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That's a really good question. I'm curious to know the answer too.

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 Post subject: Re: Where is GOWK at regionals?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:00 am 
Dark Lord of the Sith
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the republic overall have not been played. They have GM yoda,GOWK and Yodabuck as there bases so I dont know why they have not been played that much. All three can keep the Rebel and NR in check but get hurt by Lancer. But again the Republic have some of the best counters to the lancer so I dont know why he has not been played. I am starting to get bored of the 200 meta but again you can bring out so many unused 20-35 point minis its not even funny.We have seen Nute,Anakin solo to name a few. I cant wait till Gencon to see what everyone has come up with.


Last edited by jonnyb815 on Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Where is GOWK at regionals?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:05 am 
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I've got a few ideas about why GOWK isn't being played:

1) Some people might not necessarily know that he has been unbanned. I know that, every now and again, there are still people posting on BlooMilk asking about whether or not he's still banned.

2) People have gotten used to playing without GOWK, and so working him back into the rotation might not have been a priority. Meh, that might be a stretch but it's possible lol.

3) Some people might be more interested in playing with new pieces. I know that whenever I get a new VR, I want to try and play with it as soon as I can.

Just some thoughts. I might actually run a GOWK squad at Regionals tomorrow. Haven't decided. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Where is GOWK at regionals?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:00 pm 
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He didn't even make an appearance at the Colorado Springs event.

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 Post subject: Re: Where is GOWK at regionals?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:46 pm 
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Its curious that rebel cannons and mara jedi are runnning around like crazy and GOWK seems to be out to lunch and letting them go crazy.

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 Post subject: Re: Where is GOWK at regionals?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:11 am 
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GOWK squads are not a whole lot of fun to play against unless you're NR running disruptive. And as someone said, even Rebels with their two disruptive pieces are tough to deal with when they're played right.

I found this out when playing in the PA/MD regional with my GOWK squad. Pretty good when it came to shooter centric squads (and when I didn't do dumb things) but difficult when I had to deal with NR disruptive or melee centric squads. It didn't leave me with a lot of options and by the time I had killed the disruptive I ended up losing GOWK or most of the attack power of my squad. I was lucky in a few of my match-ups that GOWK was able to make saves and live, and that the attack portion of the squad wasn't killed too quickly.

I think some people will try to re-look at or rework GOWK squads as best as they can. The problem is I still see NR being the biggest threat and problem for him. With Kyle, Han, and Ganner (mainly for movement breaking) at their disposal they're quite tough to stop with GOWK. Don't count out the Rebels either they have Luke to help lob the disruptive (if they feel like it) where it needs to be, and the melee to kill him as well.

But...with that being said I wouldn't count him totally out.

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 Post subject: Re: Where is GOWK at regionals?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:59 am 
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Keep in mind - even BEFORE GOWK was banned and erratta'ed (when he still was uber GOWK) and everyone was playing him, he was taken down time and time again at the Chicago Regionals by an all shooter squad that ended up winning. Of course everyone caught on and then we had 37 (actual number if memory serves) similar squads (2/3 of the squad the exact same with the last third varying a little) at the GenCon championship that year.

Johnny - I am surprised you're saying your bored with the meta. It's WAY more wide open than 150 last year. Heck you got 2nd in Chicago and won Racine with 2 totally different squads. And we've seen no less than 4 or 5 other squad types do very well if not win. Last year we had the top 8 with 2 squad types.

Back on topic - the other thing to think about GOWK is that he is mostly defense. People are more offense focused since the 3/2 rule change. Games with GOWK OFTEN didn't finish. I really think that speed and power (power meaning +damage) win out. Republic has Yobuck and Panaka for speed and Gen Skyguy for + power. Most are using all 3. I just don't think a CE that only ups attack and defense is as useful in this meta as one that increases damage output. Leia, Bothans, Grievous DAC, Whorm, Gen Skyguy, Thrawn all increase damage output in some way. Other than that you have very cheap commanders with useful tech, (San Hill, Ozzel, Anakin FS, Dodanna, Reikeen . . .<and yes Eric - I will mention him> and even Nute Gunray <who is cheap when you factor in Reserves> is doing well.) But not many other commanders are being played. Am I missing a commander that has been a part of a squad that has done well at regionals this year?


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 Post subject: Re: Where is GOWK at regionals?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:32 am 
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GM Yoda has show up a little. The meta right now is super speed. Most of all the top squads have speed. Yeah you can use GOWK as an Offense piece since he has Push and Knight speed but with the melee rule around you cant do that as much. But there are speed pieces you can use him with like Anakin Stap or yodabuck. I think a squad I am really liking him in is the senate Commando squads over GM yoda. But again GM yoda can stop Mara and has help vs Cloak and Stealth in his throw.
I think really people just want to play other factions. A lot of my games with GOWK back then didnt go to time. They were really fast. Yeah I had some odd Mirror match games but other than that they were fast. I only used GOWk as a uggie killer,Blocker,finisher I dont see how that cant really work now if you build the squad right.

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 Post subject: Re: Where is GOWK at regionals?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:06 pm 
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David, I suspect the main 3 reasons are thus:

1. General Skywalker - increases damage as well as attack, and he's a more powerful attacker, with similar surviability to GOWK overall. So to a degree, he's preferred. He also synergizes better with Yoda on Kybuck.

2. Shooter squads are including melee just in case. Kyle/Ganner in NR, Luke RS/Ferus in Rebel, JH Droids and Lancer for Seps, Vader's and other for Imps, and of course, heavy melee for Republic. So to say the meta is being dominated by shooters where GOWK thrives is incorrect in a major way.

3. 3/2 Rule - Tim mentioned it, and it's right. The old system allowed GOWK to dominate because you could easily get a lead, and not die in an hour. Still possible, but people are tending to run squads that they are more capable of getting the 3pt win with. Not saying it's not possible with GOWK (see below), but it's just not prefered at the moment.

Now, with that said, it's very possible to run GOWK squads in the current meta and do well, Flobi as well. For example, Lou did very well in two regionals with Yoda GM and JWMs. They are very similar to GOWK type squads, and with all the other options available to Republic, GOWK squads could do very well. You simply pack up a couple of nasties and charge. I suspect someone will run it at Gencon, and perhaps in one of the remaining regionals. Who knows.

Just because people aren't choosing something, doesn't mean it isn't there. There really are so many things you can run, and a great number of variants that I just don't think people will cover it all. Heck, I could identify at least 10 squads that I think could compete with the current meta that I have yet to see run by a top level player. So we shall see what happens. I have my predictions, but I will save those for later.

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 Post subject: Re: Where is GOWK at regionals?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:49 pm 
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The only reason i bring it up is i see when squads are created that they have a melee figure or something just in case they run into gowk like you said and yet they arent for the most part. I just found it interesting that squads are being built to counter something that has yet to be a big part of regionals.

Like you said yes there is a lot of time left for him to be played at regionals, just curious is all.

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 Post subject: Re: Where is GOWK at regionals?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:09 pm 
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Well, the thing is, with the map list and such, they aren't just there for GOWK, as they can do pretty well against the field as well now.

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 Post subject: Re: Where is GOWK at regionals?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:28 am 
Name Calling Internet Bully
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Weeks wrote:
The only reason i bring it up is i see when squads are created that they have a melee figure or something just in case they run into gowk like you said and yet they arent for the most part. I just found it interesting that squads are being built to counter something that has yet to be a big part of regionals.

Like you said yes there is a lot of time left for him to be played at regionals, just curious is all.


Well that's the problem. You are assuming the old meta where the only reason you would include melee pieces would have been for GOWK/Flobi (in the minds of many players anyways - not my own). Mixed squads have always been a good bet in the game. The current map list and rules helps support that reality further. People are using melee pieces because they are good, not to counter GOWK primarily (that is simply a nice bonus should you face it).

No one wants to face an autoloss of sorts should they run an all shooter team and have to play GOWK. But let's be honest, you are not making your squad worse by including a good melee piece or two at all. You are generally making it better and more adaptable to the situation. For example, melee pieces don't have to worry about evade. They tend to have high defenses and hps, and make great interference for your own shooters. And further, most of those being played also provide significant damage.

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 Post subject: Re: Where is GOWK at regionals?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:37 am 
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IMO they hit him too hard with the nerf stick. For what he does and for how Soresu works (which are two separate issues), he simply costs too much. A similar statement is also true about Flobi. I'm sure some people will disagree with me, and that's fine. But let's not overlook the fact that another special ability was written with the idea of countering Soresu/SSM in mind and now is completely irrelevant as ALL melee ignores Soresu.

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 Post subject: Re: Where is GOWK at regionals?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:38 am 
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Report from NJ Regionals: No GOWK in sight! Also no Lancer, surprisingly enough. And one GMLS squad. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Where is GOWK at regionals?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:23 am 
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I too cry about Makashi Mastery's main usefullness going away. Oh, well, it is the lesser of two evils. Just add more pieces with those styles, maybe even making some Masterys, and I will be happy. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Where is GOWK at regionals?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:59 am 
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billiv15 wrote:
No one wants to face an autoloss of sorts should they run an all shooter team and have to play GOWK.


Never was an autoloss. See Chicago Regionals 2009 for reference.

I will concede that it would be difficult to get a 3 point win these days in that situation. I do agree that in general, in today's meta especially - you need a mixed bag. All melee is hurt by GMLS, JarJar and even Arden Lynn. All non-melee is hurt by a lot too.


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 Post subject: Re: Where is GOWK at regionals?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 12:36 pm 
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TimmerB123 wrote:
billiv15 wrote:
No one wants to face an autoloss of sorts should they run an all shooter team and have to play GOWK.


Never was an autoloss. See Chicago Regionals 2009 for reference.

I will concede that it would be difficult to get a 3 point win these days in that situation. I do agree that in general, in today's meta especially - you need a mixed bag. All melee is hurt by GMLS, JarJar and even Arden Lynn. All non-melee is hurt by a lot too.


Oh come on, not to rehash old tales, but you played only one of the top 3 players running GOWK, and you did so on your map as I recall. You didn't play me or Lobo, because we both got beat earlier.

But even then, I concede that the Slow Cannon was one of the few generalists (maybe only) squads that could handle GOWK, but had to do so in what would now be a 2pt win in most games.

And I don't remember specifically, but I remember Lou doing something stupid in that game as well :)

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 Post subject: Re: Where is GOWK at regionals?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:42 pm 
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billiv15 wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
billiv15 wrote:
No one wants to face an autoloss of sorts should they run an all shooter team and have to play GOWK.


Never was an autoloss. See Chicago Regionals 2009 for reference.

I will concede that it would be difficult to get a 3 point win these days in that situation. I do agree that in general, in today's meta especially - you need a mixed bag. All melee is hurt by GMLS, JarJar and even Arden Lynn. All non-melee is hurt by a lot too.


Oh come on, not to rehash old tales, but you played only one of the top 3 players running GOWK, and you did so on your map as I recall. You didn't play me or Lobo, because we both got beat earlier.

But even then, I concede that the Slow Cannon was one of the few generalists (maybe only) squads that could handle GOWK, but had to do so in what would now be a 2pt win in most games.

And I don't remember specifically, but I remember Lou doing something stupid in that game as well :)


5 of 7 matches were vs GOWK (all except Deri and Jonny), and I beat Matt on his map.


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 Post subject: Re: Where is GOWK at regionals?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:52 pm 
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I dont believe it was 5 of 7 since we only played 6 rounds hehehe.


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