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 Post subject: The Amazing Zuckster!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:24 am 
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Anticipation, Accurate, Intuition and Snare Gun synergize so well together it's really not funny. Unlike other good shooters, he has something to do in a game against Reeikan or Wedge (especially Leia/Wedge). For me, in games so far, he has served three purposes.

1) 20, 30, or 40dmg attacker (used Han RH, Whorm, Republic and Sith so far). This is by far his minor use, but he has a pretty reliable damage output, especially if you either up his attack by 4, up his damage, increase his number of attacks (extra or twin), give him fps for rereolls (and mettle) or several of the above.

2) Lock down a key attacker, or big nasty from the opponent. So far, in three test games my Zuckuss has done the following. 1 - Locked down Dean's 4-Lom the entire game until he was dead, mostly from Zuck himself since my Han RH couldn't hit anything. 2 - Locked down a Ferus, preventing all but one attack made by him all game. 3 - Turned Kyle BM into a gambit collecting turret while I eliminated the remainder of his squad. The Sith last night absolutely owned the NR, in large part thanks to Zuckuss. Who would argue that the Sith are better than the NR up to this point? It didn't even matter that Zuck spent most of the game doing 0 damage. I simply kept Kyle from doing anything the entire game, and eliminated his other pieces one by one. First it was Jarael, then Kol, then TBSV/Wedge and finally Leia. Poor Kyle collected like 40-50pts in gambit, but I don't think that was my opponent's intentions :)

3) Commander hunting. Most people run intuition poorly, but when done right, it's incredibly hard to protect commanders from a figure with it. Further, with Zuckuss, commanders can't take pop shots at all with out severe risk. I bring up an example from game 2 (Seps vs Rebels). I finally let Ferus go after taking most of his hps (finished him with the new Bossk that round anyway). My opponent's Reeikan had to come out of hiding to take out a key ugo/mouse (don't remember which) I was using to block a much nastier Dengar Final Shot. Dengar got his final shot, and I in turn locked down, and then out Reeikan. You don't get to run away because you took too much damage and hid in the back against Zuck. Once you are out there, your opponent can lock you down.

Zuckuss is an amazing figure, and he fits with virtually every faction in a variety of ways. You can either use him completely as support, add a CE or two (most of the ones that he will benefit most from are already in good squads), or max him out (I've not tried this yet). He works very well with extra FPs, which the Rebels, Sith and NR can do for cheap. The FPs can be key to make sure you have 2 attempts per turn to lock someone down. Extra attacks work best with twin in Seps, and Flobi/Exile in Republic and OR and Bothans in the Rebels. Getting that key +4 is pretty easy in Sith (Malak), Rep (lots of options, Qui-Gon being the most obvious) and so on.

As to which factions can use him best? I kind think it's all of them for the strategic player. For example, Vong, the faction on the surface it would seem he synergizes the least with. What is generally a Vong's biggest threat? Disruptive. What happens to disruptive when it gets stuck in place outside the battle for most of the game? Answer - it doesn't help.

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 Post subject: Re: The Amazing Zuckster!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:36 am 
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Good writeup. Disruptive is the bane of a lot of swarm squads that use melee (or pseudo-melee, e.g. WFF) and I'm thinking he'll strengthen these squad types too. Swarm squads are a good counter to Zuckuss too because they aren't as vulnerable to snare as are squads with a few big centerpiece threats.

Can snare rifle lock down Luke's Snowspeeder? Or is there a statement on the rules insert that exempts Huge and larger minis? I don't think I've seen the rules insert yet. Right now it looks like there are no exceptions or saves for snare rifle, the only counter is to avoid being targeted. Yeah, that's gonna change the game.


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 Post subject: Re: The Amazing Zuckster!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:08 am 
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barzillai wrote:
Good writeup. Disruptive is the bane of a lot of swarm squads that use melee (or pseudo-melee, e.g. WFF) and I'm thinking he'll strengthen these squad types too. Swarm squads are a good counter to Zuckuss too because they aren't as vulnerable to snare as are squads with a few big centerpiece threats.

Can snare rifle lock down Luke's Snowspeeder? Or is there a statement on the rules insert that exempts Huge and larger minis? I don't think I've seen the rules insert yet. Right now it looks like there are no exceptions or saves for snare rifle, the only counter is to avoid being targeted. Yeah, that's gonna change the game.


Currently, there is no restriction on Snare Rifle. Hopefully it stays that way.

And I agree with Billiv, the strategic option this brings to the table is amazing. Hell, it can lock down the Doombot, that alone is going to force a lot of Republic players to adapt. It sure is nice to have a game changer that isn't a super commander or have killer damage output.

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 Post subject: Re: The Amazing Zuckster!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:56 am 
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Yeah, the ability to lock down a key player will be huge. Heck, even if sometimes it's just locking down something like an Ugo that has Evade. Might not kill it, but might keep it from getting to an important door to blow it up or something. The possibilities and implications are quite impressive. Can't wait to see the rules insert, and I just hope there aren't any restrictions that screw things up.

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 Post subject: Re: The Amazing Zuckster!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:38 am 
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LoboStele wrote:
Yeah, the ability to lock down a key player will be huge. Heck, even if sometimes it's just locking down something like an Ugo that has Evade.
Hehe, I did this nasty trick the other day on Ravaged base to keep a door locked that I wanted shut :)

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 Post subject: Re: The Amazing Zuckster!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:42 pm 
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the fact that there is no save to the snare is just unbeliviably good.

stop yobuck mid gallop? oh yes.
Snare a lancer droid, tasty!

very cleverly designed fig.

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 Post subject: Re: The Amazing Zuckster!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:43 pm 
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fingersandteeth wrote:
stop yobuck mid gallop? oh yes.


That is...if it works this way. I have a sneaking suspicion it will be like the Paralysis and AoOs precedent, though I would LOVE to see it be ruled otherwise. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: The Amazing Zuckster!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:51 pm 
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this is going to make melee extremely vulnerable,
it cannot be prevented so melee pieces with pretty much be dead should they be caught in the open

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 Post subject: Re: The Amazing Zuckster!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:56 pm 
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But so will any shooter, I think it doesn't specifically focus on either melee or non-melee.

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 Post subject: Re: The Amazing Zuckster!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:59 pm 
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Most smart Melee players keep their pieces well out of LOS until they are ready to pounce, so I don't really think this will have as much effect on them.

What I do see it having an effect on is the pieces with Evade, which is mostly shooters. Many times, people will move a shooter with Evade out at the end of a round, take their shots, and leave themselves with the chance that if they win init, they can move the piece to safety, but if they lose init, they still have Evade to help them, and THEN they can move to safety. With Zuckuss, those pieces won't be able to do that. Evade may still save them from the damage, but Zuckuss will keep them from retreating, thus allowing them to take a full round of damage.

Sure, it's going to hurt Melee pieces some. But if you play well enough so that your piece(s) don't get shot at until you're within 6 squares or so of Zuckuss anyways...well, it probably won't matter much.

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 Post subject: Re: The Amazing Zuckster!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:01 pm 
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By the way before any of you guys try to take it, I have given him the ultimate nick name!!!


GLue Gun!!!!

Yes it is mine and finally I made a cool nickname Bill!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: The Amazing Zuckster!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:22 pm 
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Hahaha, awesome. I love it.

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 Post subject: Re: The Amazing Zuckster!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:38 pm 
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Well, we had to finally let him name something. About time he didn't come up with crap anyways :) Glue Gun it is!

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 Post subject: Re: The Amazing Zuckster!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:08 pm 
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LoboStele wrote:
fingersandteeth wrote:
stop yobuck mid gallop? oh yes.


That is...if it works this way. I have a sneaking suspicion it will be like the Paralysis and AoOs precedent, though I would LOVE to see it be ruled otherwise. ;)

hmm true.

Then again, i doubt if it would be that effective even if it was like that. Zuckuss would be preventitive at best as figs would just forgo moving past him for the AoO.

Lest not us forget that i brain farted and forgot the lancer has flight (to used to using riposte to counter the lancer).

Anyway, he seems very effective at trapping figures, and awesome hunter to say the least. Actually, he really seems so unique and powerful that i smell a retern of draw fire.
C3PO, jar jar and defenders please take the floor.

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 Post subject: Re: The Amazing Zuckster!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:59 am 
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LoboStele wrote:
Most smart Melee players keep their pieces well out of LOS until they are ready to pounce, so I don't really think this will have as much effect on them.


But what happens when the piece has "pounced"? That's where Zuckuss gets in. If the melee piece doesn't kill its target initially, you can take an AoO to get away and then use Zuckuss to pin that piece for the rest of the skirmish. Works even better with pieces with Flight. I can imagine a deadly combo of Zuckuss/Cad Bane; so long as Bane survives the initial hit, you can run and Anticipation/Snare Gun a melee beater.

Zuckuss + Obi Wan Ghost is going to become one of my favourite combos I suspect :)

Love abilities that ignore Evade.


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 Post subject: Re: The Amazing Zuckster!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:33 am 
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a ghost "Glue Gun" combo would really be nice, use anticipation to make sure you prevent pouncing

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 Post subject: Re: The Amazing Zuckster!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:05 pm 
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Wedge772 wrote:
LoboStele wrote:
Most smart Melee players keep their pieces well out of LOS until they are ready to pounce, so I don't really think this will have as much effect on them.


But what happens when the piece has "pounced"? That's where Zuckuss gets in. If the melee piece doesn't kill its target initially, you can take an AoO to get away and then use Zuckuss to pin that piece for the rest of the skirmish. Works even better with pieces with Flight. I can imagine a deadly combo of Zuckuss/Cad Bane; so long as Bane survives the initial hit, you can run and Anticipation/Snare Gun a melee beater.

Zuckuss + Obi Wan Ghost is going to become one of my favourite combos I suspect :)

Love abilities that ignore Evade.

Good point. And I agree about the Zuckuss/ObiGhost, or even Zuckuss/LukeGhost. As long as you can hit reliably with him, he'll be worth his points...therefore it's nice to have an option to fprr with Mettle.

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 Post subject: Re: The Amazing Zuckster!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:36 pm 
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thereisnotry wrote:
Wedge772 wrote:
LoboStele wrote:
Most smart Melee players keep their pieces well out of LOS until they are ready to pounce, so I don't really think this will have as much effect on them.


But what happens when the piece has "pounced"? That's where Zuckuss gets in. If the melee piece doesn't kill its target initially, you can take an AoO to get away and then use Zuckuss to pin that piece for the rest of the skirmish. Works even better with pieces with Flight. I can imagine a deadly combo of Zuckuss/Cad Bane; so long as Bane survives the initial hit, you can run and Anticipation/Snare Gun a melee beater.

Zuckuss + Obi Wan Ghost is going to become one of my favourite combos I suspect :)

Love abilities that ignore Evade.

Good point. And I agree about the Zuckuss/ObiGhost, or even Zuckuss/LukeGhost. As long as you can hit reliably with him, he'll be worth his points...therefore it's nice to have an option to fprr with Mettle.


But can the Force Ghosts keep up with Zuckuss? Their speed works against his Intuition. I like the idea of using Zuckuss with the Ghosts, but I fear he's not going to be in range for a Mettle re-roll.


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 Post subject: Re: The Amazing Zuckster!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:53 pm 
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Thing is, with the Ghosts, let's face, he is going to have Mobile and Evade. Should be fine.

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 Post subject: Re: The Amazing Zuckster!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:54 am 
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I don't anticipate (lol) using Zuckuss' Intuition to go running full-speed across the map. I see using it more for the pseudo-Mobile to get off shots or hide at the beginning of a round. In the right squads, I don't see any issue with a Ghost keeping up with him most of the time. He's a rear-guard shooter, so shouldn't be any more difficult to keep up with than Han Scoundrel, probably.

@ Deri: I still see Zuckuss being nice against pieces like the Lancer though, even with Flight. The Sep faction has a tough time with init control outside of Lobot CLO or the MTB. So, often times, somebody uses the Lancer and hopes to win the next init, and escape to safety. With Zuckuss, that chance goes way down, and then you might be able to trap the Lancer in your back-field long enough to kill it. Might not always work, and of course, won't work with a Pawned Lancer squad, but it's at least an option. Not sure I'm THAT worried about it anyways though, as Lancers aren't the be-all-end-all of squads right now anyways.

I'm most interested in the ability to lock down pieces with Flight like the Snowspeeder, Boba BH, Cad Bane, etc. Lots of good stuff there. Plenty of times where you might be able to force somebody to activate that piece with Flight earlier in the round than they want to, simply to get out of range of your other pieces.

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