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 Post subject: Melee Advancement: How Do You Do It?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:14 pm 
Jedi Battlemaster
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Ever had that sinking feeling.. when you bring your awesome, lightsaber swinging Jedi to the table, only to see a deadly array of opposing shooters staring you down.

Now you know that you have to get to base them.. and once you do they are usually dead. But, getting there is always the issue.

I've been giving it a little thought and come up with the 3 schools of thought on Melee Advancement.

(1). Just run em up, as fast as possible (preferably still in cover), so that the least amount of rounds pass before you can base.
Sure my melee guys are going to take some damage, hopefully they've got some decent SAs or FPs to keep them safe for a short time. Keep your fingers crossed so that you've still got enough hps once you've base to be able to kill something.

(2). Slow careful advancement, keeping out of LOS, and at bare minimum, in cover. Take longer to cross the board, but hopefully you've allowed less shots.
I've always felt this way is more of a waste. Versus mobile, or greater shooters, there are very few spots on most maps that offer safe advancement options. Other squad elements, like override, can help to keep your guys safe as well.

(3). Movement Breakers.
Definitely the best option. High speed figures like YoBuck or Jareal, Swappers like Thrawn and Panaka, Tow Cable... Even Lift and Levitate to a lesser extent. Granted not all factions and squads have access to these pieces.

Obviously the best method is to have a movement breaker to help you, but in the advent of not being able to access it.. what do you feel your best options are? Reflecting on my own play style, I know that I have done both 1 and 2, depending on the situation. If I'm sitting pretty with an evading Kyle, with Mettle and Leia's RR.. I've no problem rushing him forward asap.
On the other had, if I'm stuck with a mass of Pre-A&E Republic Jedi (and no Artoo) I know I'm going to be more careful to move them up in closed off rooms and behind walls.

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 Post subject: Re: Melee Advancement: How Do You Do It?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:24 pm 
Master of the Order
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Whether I choose 1 or 2 really depends on the squad I'm playing, and what map we're on.

If I'm playing a squad with a lot of Force Renewal....slow and easy wins the game. Or if I'm playing a squad that has lots of weaker Jedi with big damage output (not that there are many of those in the game, but you get my point, lol).

If the opponent has Renewal, or other 'storable' abilities that will build up over time (Reserves, for instance), AND it's a wide open map, then probably make a mad charge pretty quick. Charging is always the worst idea though, IMO. Even if you're trying to move 10-12 squares toward the opponent each round, you still want to do everything possible to stay out of LOS, and minimize as much damage as you can. Otherwise, you'll never survive.

So, honestly, maps probably have a lot to do with it. Depends on DCI vs. fun play though too. Most DCI matches, I would play it safe, advance to gambit, then hunt anything that comes near the center. You want to stay in the back corners? Fine, stay there. I'll win on gambit points.

Fun game....for FREEDOM!!! :P

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 Post subject: Re: Melee Advancement: How Do You Do It?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:43 pm 
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I find that the best advancement is a combination of all 3. Usually begin with 2 (slow careful advancement giving no shots) closing the distance until i perform 1 (a dash to Base or attack) when the time is right. Both of these are augmented by 3 (movement breaking).

if your using swap as your movement breaker then you absolutely have to do 2. Your swappers command a large portion of your squads potential. Lose swappers and lose potential, and gain a quick loss (or even worse a slow agonizing one).

with R2 and Yobuck you mostly do a mad charge with yobuck leaving R2 in a safe spot. So thats a turn of 2, followed by 1 with glorious lashings of 3 in both turns. But this movement breaking is the best in the game and unique in the fantastic distance possible.

Without movement breakers I find 1 is a last resort if i'm behind or usefull if i see an opportunity to give the opponent headaches like basing 3-4 low HP pieces. Its low success/high risk strategy usually as your going to be running into your opponents whole squad unless your advancement has forced a split of his forces (squad splitting seems to be a popular but reckless strategy, flanking doesn't generally work).

The most difficult but most successful method is definately the slow advance (2). I look for ways to cut off the board and give little to no shots while cramping the space of the opponents. Very often i'll take a turn and move 6-10 spaces from one safe spot to another a little way futher ahead resisting the urge to go the extra few spaces and give up easy shots. Most reasonable maps should allow you to get close to half way without giving off wild shots.
Once you get to the center you should be in a reasonable position to make a 1 towards a key piece.

picking the right avenues for advance is very important. Being knowlegable of LOS through doors is essential and adapting to your opponents moves is vital.

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 Post subject: Re: Melee Advancement: How Do You Do It?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:45 pm 
Jedi Council
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It varies depending on what/how many safe spots there are for advancement on the map, but in general I usually go for the straight rush to try and base as soon as possible.

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 Post subject: Re: Melee Advancement: How Do You Do It?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:06 pm 
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Discounting movement breakers, it's really somewhere between 1 and 2. The goal is always to start a round within 12 without having taken any significant damage. You then take your lumps during the engagement round.

There's some skill involved in trying to distribute/minimize the damage you take by moving in the characters in the correct order, in basing particular enemies with the proper figure, and in narrowing that 12 rush to a 6 rush when the opportunity presents.

Good topic. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Melee Advancement: How Do You Do It?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:59 am 
Imperial Dignitaries
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Yeah, nice topic, Ruhk.

My method is usually like what Fingers described. 2 followed by 1 at the right time. Most worthwhile melee figs can survive until the next round, when they kill off those darn TBSVs or Rex/Dash/Cad. And obviously, the more you can use movement-breakers to your advantage, the better.

However, on a slightly different note, I think it's really important--especially nowadays with the game's higher damage output--for melee figs to be able to do more than a mere 20dmg after movement. Something as simple as Lightsaber Assault or Twin Attack makes such a big difference. For this reason, I'm so happy about General Skywalker, because he increases the movement damage of others in his squad by giving them Momentum...that extra 10 dmg per attack makes a big difference. What I'd love to see on melee and especially jedi/sith in the near future is a lot more Knight Speed or Master Speed, and/or Momentum or Cleave or GMA. Being able to do worthwhile damage on the move is so valuable, especially when you've done all the hard work of bringing your melee figs safely across the board.

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 Post subject: Re: Melee Advancement: How Do You Do It?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:41 pm 
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
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thereisnotry wrote:
What I'd love to see on melee and especially jedi/sith in the near future is a lot more Knight Speed or Master Speed, and/or Momentum or Cleave or GMA.


Charging fire is also useful. Have used it and seen it used with OR wookiees and Han-STA
with Aqualish.


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 Post subject: Re: Melee Advancement: How Do You Do It?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:01 am 
Dark Lord of the Sith
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MandalMauler wrote:
thereisnotry wrote:
What I'd love to see on melee and especially jedi/sith in the near future is a lot more Knight Speed or Master Speed, and/or Momentum or Cleave or GMA.


Charging fire is also useful. Have used it and seen it used with OR wookiees and Han-STA
with Aqualish.

Go WEW. That was a fun game at RockCon even though the numbers sucked. I dont think I let down with prize support though but most of the time I give good prizes out. Ill do a report later.


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 Post subject: Re: Melee Advancement: How Do You Do It?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:15 am 
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Movement breakers are usually the best option, but my strategy is usually somewhere between 2 and cover fire. If I am playing republic, I usually bring Rex, and I have been able to, in some games position my pieces to where, yes my opponents can get shots on my jedi, but doing so will have the severe repercussion or Captain Rex taking shots on their shooter. When I play NR, I usually pack Dash, Jag, and Dodonna and employ the same strategy. Some people will say that they don't think using Jag's Commander effect for just one piece is a worthwhile investment. I say in the case of Dash Rendar, Renegade Smuggler they are mistaken. Reikan makes this same strategy available to the Rebels with the 27 point Han Smuggler <Who I think is very nearly as effective as Rex or Dash once you account for Accurate shot>

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 Post subject: Re: Melee Advancement: How Do You Do It?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:24 pm 
Name Calling Internet Bully
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Luke_Skywalker wrote:
Movement breakers are usually the best option, but my strategy is usually somewhere between 2 and cover fire. If I am playing republic, I usually bring Rex, and I have been able to, in some games position my pieces to where, yes my opponents can get shots on my jedi, but doing so will have the severe repercussion or Captain Rex taking shots on their shooter. When I play NR, I usually pack Dash, Jag, and Dodonna and employ the same strategy. Some people will say that they don't think using Jag's Commander effect for just one piece is a worthwhile investment. I say in the case of Dash Rendar, Renegade Smuggler they are mistaken. Reikan makes this same strategy available to the Rebels with the 27 point Han Smuggler <Who I think is very nearly as effective as Rex or Dash once you account for Accurate shot>

Yep, I too use all 3, plus the most common for me is #4 - non-melee cover fire, as you mentioned it. I'm glad you did so I didn't have to. The basics are simple enough, but very often missed both in squad building and in tactical play. You use the threat of a nasty shooter to protect your advance. Don't be afraid to take shots on your shooter, if it can win you the game in the long run, but keeping your melee safer, etc.

Also, Han Smuggler is at a minimum equal to Rex and Dash in that roll. It's funny, a lot of players make a big deal about those two, and completely ignore the one that tends to be the more dominant. Of course, with SSM back, at least in those matches, I would prefer the double twiners, but much more often, the Leia boosted Hans are much preferred for me.

If I were to add a 5th, I would call it swarm. You use 2 and then 1. Hit with all your pieces at once. Force your opponent into tough decisions and this will keep your melee alive longer.

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 Post subject: Re: Melee Advancement: How Do You Do It?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:54 am 
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I think I am of a 1 and 2 player. Depending on the squad idea I am running. I tend to play maps that have a good amount of cover and play a mix of sabers and shooters in my squads. So I probably use some of the schools of thought on it that Billiv mentioned. I just wish that Republic had some kind of Tempo control though.

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 Post subject: Re: Melee Advancement: How Do You Do It?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:52 pm 
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I use 2 and then 1, but in combination with one I have another BIG element that I execute Which I have found to be helpful especially when I'm only moving in one major melee like Kyle Katarn/Mara Jedi or others who do not have access to movement breakers:

#5. Play with the targeting rules. If you can't quite get to the opponent in one round, close to the end of the current round, move in your melee piece along with a mouse droid for mobile cover trying to keep both in cover. A 24 defense is not easy to hit even for some of the more dominant shooters (Rex, Dash, and even bounty hunters like Cad Bane.....no bounty on a mouse droid :P ). That makes twinning shooters waste at a minimum one twin and sometimes both twin and double all for the mere 3 point blocker.

I have used the tactic many times, and it does wonders!

Also, I love the use of evading minis for the same roll if you have Rieeken or General Wedge on your team.


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