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 Post subject: My Problem with Soresu Style Mastery
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:49 pm 
The One True Sith Lord
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Ok so I am not having a debate with anyone about this. I am just spelling out what I dont like about SSM. A lot of people have wondered why I am not very excited by this. A lot of people have used arguments that seem on the surface true but when you scratch the surface you find some of them really aren't. So why say this now??? Well because I jsut feel like it. Again this is not meant to be an argument with folks for two reasons. One I am getting something off my chest and it feels good to say it. Two the merits of my argument have been thought out and playtested and staticstically proven. So without further ado.... lets get to the meat of it.


One of the immediate and glaring problems I have with SSM is the luck factor. I dont believe straight luck with no counter is good for the health of a tactical game. You can argue it is but why would you play a tactical game that relies on luck. You dont see it is chess and that game has been going strong for centuries. I wonder why? Look the ability Evade brings a bit of what we can call fun luck to the game. I am not a fan of it really but you can use tactics to counter it. You base your enemy. That is simple enough isn't it? SSM goes for straight luck. Basing or ranged makes no difference. If you are facing a lucky opponent your day is done. Positioning will mean little to you with a hot rolling opponent. So then your options become direct damage. The problem is with direct damage against an Obi with SSM is that it is kind of an all or nothing deal. Put enough pieces in the squad with direct damage and you are good to against OBi.... problem is your opponent is not rolling Obi out the gate alone. That covers one opponent what about the rest of the tourney. The second piece of that is you only put one piece in the squad and he cannot get off enough of the direct damages to hurt Obi before he crushes your direct damage piece. For me this is not how I want to have to build every squad.


The other reason I am not a fan of SSM is it pretty much completely ruins any benefit to running melee characters. I remember one of the arguments against Gowk ban was “We finally have a melee piece built to help melee and you want it gone.” Is that exactly true? First if someone can tell me how the ability SSM helps melee I will give you my first born child. SSM helps the character that has it period. That is it. It at the same times gives you zero reason to run melee against it. Let’s think about this. With Evade you always had a reason to base your opponent’s piece. It nullifies their advantage…. Positive use of melee. You base you opponents Obi with a melee fig. He makes the same save he would with a ranged piece. For your effort you then will receive a full beat down from Obi on your opponent’s next chance to activate Obi. With ranged you are hampered by the same issues but you have space between you and Obi. There is a positive for ranged use. SSM does more than any one ability in the game to kill the use of melee. I am sorry this is Star Wars I want to use my light saber wielding force users. I could play Axis and Allies if I wanted to just have a shoot out. Better yet why not make a Gunfight at the OK Corral set. Then we could just have shoot outs.


Well since SSM has effectively killed the reasons for running melee why not just bring out one more point I won’t like about it. The return to the Meta of Boba BH. Do you think I am crazy? Well let’s think this out. Who would be better to counter him? I know you are saying “Dean you have never been a proponent of Disintegration”. That is a good point and would help but no I am not talking about that. Take that out of the equation for the moment. Why would Boba be perfect? Well let’s see he would be attacking Obi every round at +18 which helps. But then on top of that he has accurate so he can put his shots on Obi. So maybe he gets some damage on him while Obi crosses the map. But once Obi has based him, this is where Boba BH becomes especially dangerous. If he has managed to put just a little damage on Obi, Boba should be good to go. At this point he can use flight to get away from Obi and begin the direct damage campaign of terror on Obi. If Boba has managed to hit Obi then he can basically stand to trade some damage. This strategy is sound and I promise I won’t be the only person to come up with it.


So overall, I am just not excited about the ability SSM. I never will be. As it stands now it doesn’t appear this new Obi (“Flobi” seems to be his new moniker) is in need of being banned. None the less, I am still not a fan of any ability that turns my favorite tactical game into a luck based dice rolling game. Hell I did not spend 5 years buying and collecting minis to have this turned into Yahtzee. I would prefer at some point they either redesign SSM or just take the ability away. The designers really struck out on this one in so many ways. They struck out again when they had a chance to fix it in the Galaxy at War set. Instead they took a pass and left us to deal with an overpowered luck based ability in a tactical game. Sorry that is poor design anyway you cut it and I don’t like it. Well I feel better I had to get that off my chest. Thanks for reading and remember you won’t change my mind and I am not trying to change yours. I am just pointing out what bugs me about the whole deal

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 Post subject: Re: My Problem with Soresu Style Mastery
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:56 pm 
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Yep.

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 Post subject: Re: My Problem with Soresu Style Mastery
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:03 pm 
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Yup.

I'm all in favour of a change in the definition. Let SSM become "all non-melee attacks".

It would be different from Luminara's SS, which is "All non-adjacent attacks". Its an improvement, as shooter will always have a 50-50 shot of doing damage, and it (In my view) bumps ups melee, since FlObi and GWOK wouldn't have much defense vs melee fighters.

meh doubt it'll happen, but I've got hopes!

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 Post subject: Re: My Problem with Soresu Style Mastery
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:13 pm 
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Well, I know I am just putting this out there to be chewed up, but here it goes. I like Soresu Style Mastery, and the fact is that only 1 playable piece has it. I believe that adding a factor of "I have to include some direct damage pieces in my squad in case I face Obi-Wan" I do NOT think that this is a necessarily true statement, but I like having to build around obstacles, and Soresu Style Mastery adds an obstacle that my opponents have to build around, not because it is even in my squad, but because it EXISTS! When I compete in an event I have to ask myself a few questions "How many activations do I need?; What kind of attack bonuses do I need?; What kind of initiative control do I need? What kind of mobility can I get in? How can I get all those in the cheapest package?" Now there is another factor "How important will direct damage be?" It's quite possible that someone could have 0 direct damage and simply outplay this Obi-Wan. And it is a race to 150 pts or highest score within time constraints so you do not have to kill this Obi-Wan to win.

Further to some this Obi-wan may be considered better than the original because with the old one only 55 pnts of your squad was protected by Soresu Style Mastery, with the new one we have 66 points of the squad protected. I know, I'm the only one who likes Soresu Style Mastery, I know I must be crazy for raising anything in defense of it, but there it is, my opinion and I stand by it.

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 Post subject: Re: My Problem with Soresu Style Mastery
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:37 pm 
The One True Sith Lord
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Well Carl I have two problems with your defense as you put it of Obi's use of Soresu Style Mastery.

1. You think adding luck to a tactical game brings out the best. I will disagree. This is not Yahtzee or some other mind numbing dice game. This is supposed be a tactical game where thought and ability should rule the day.

2. You think that playing to a tie is exceptable in this game. Playing to a pointed out game (not meeting the intended victory condition) is perfectly fine. That is why slow play has become an issue. People dont attempt to finish the game. And that is a core strategy you would use judging by you above post. Well that is not how the game was intended to be played. Winning a game 86 to 40 is not winning. Check your rules. It is a tie in which score was used as a tiebreaker. Well I dont play any competitive game shooting for a tie with the hopes of winning. To quote Herm Edwards "You Play to Win the Game!" Win. Not tie and then have a tiebreaker make me a winner.

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 Post subject: Re: My Problem with Soresu Style Mastery
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:45 pm 
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dnemiller wrote:
1. You think adding luck to a tactical game brings out the best. I will disagree. This is not Yahtzee or some other mind numbing dice game. This is supposed be a tactical game where thought and ability should rule the day.


Adding an element of luck is almost universally considered more accessible, more fun, and more "realisistic" for a tactical wargame. There are plenty of non-luck based games out there, but I for one am glad SWM is not one of them. When I want to play Chess, I'll play it. Odds are interesting to the tactical player, without being off-putting to the casual player. SWM has a nice mix of certainties and randomness to choose from. Saying SWM becomes Yahtzee just because of SSM is serious hyperbole. Heck, with GOWK, you could be pretty certain that attack damage wasn't getting through so it's hardly random at all! :D Thought and ability still ruled the day in the regionals so that seems like a point to argue as well. "Any given day" is true of so many abilities that singling out SSM as unique in this regard seems pointless.

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2. You think that playing to a tie is exceptable in this game.


Completely agree. The casual acceptance of playing to win on tiebreakers is a big problem for the game and the straw that breaks the camel's back when you start looking at GOWKs effect on the 1 hour tourney game. He's pretty unkillable. I don't think that will end up being true of the new FLOBI thus making it a GOWK problem not a SSM problem but time will tell. (That said, I have no problem declawing SSM to bring GOWK back into play at the expense of FLOBI taking a hit. Having GOWK banned is problematic in several respects. Having FLOBI drop in value, say tier 1.5 to tier 2 is meaningless.)

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 Post subject: Re: My Problem with Soresu Style Mastery
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:51 pm 
The One True Sith Lord
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I think Jason if you would read my article you would have seen that I am not against luck. I clearly stated my stance on it. My problem is that unlike Evade (which has a direct counter. Basing). SSM has no counter to the luck factor. That is my problem. We have always had ways around luck factors in this game. Generally they were from the defensive side of things. What do I mean? Do want to get hit by genades or lightening. Stay away. Dont want to get hit by missiles then stay out of the line of sight. But this is different. Dont want to have to deal with SSM..... then forfeit. Otherwise to win you have to deal with it. You have to get through the luck factor. That is my problem with it. Not that luck is used. That there is no way to get around it there is no tactical counter. With evade basing is a tactical counter. It maybe a costly one if your opponent plays smart and makes you pay for basing but there it is.... there is a way.

So please check what I mean.... you post makes it sound like I am against luck being in the game and clearly that is not what I said.

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 Post subject: Re: My Problem with Soresu Style Mastery
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:21 pm 
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Without trying to change any minds.....

my thoughts

Soresu Mastery adds a shade more luck to a game that is decided by dice but i doubt its significant in the scheme of things.
Virtually everygame is given to one person or another by a single initiative or a series of attack rolls.
I beat Lexx becasue he rolled 2 3's with rex. I beat Ted because he missed 5 out of 6 attacks needing 2 attacks of 9 or better.
Tim beat me because the crucial init went his way. This overlooks the tactical play up to that point but it was still decided by chance.
During the Gen Con championship i attacked figure after figure, speeder after speeder with evade from a distance. I relied not on luck but probabilities. No-one will persistently roll above 11s for a whole game. If they do then its one win they will get out of 100 games due to that (i recall Bills game v Vader JH B&B in 2007, a freak occurrence).
The fact that a figure can evade 50% of attack dmg mean you have to attack it more. Its a game of probabilities.
After watching Obi last night i have no reason to fear him. A good strong piece in sealed, hard to build in constructed but strong and fun to play. Accessible to new players to give them an outside underdog edge but not a reason for most vets to fear when you have to pay so much.
I will say that this floObi is what Soresu should be on. Expensive with some redeeming features. Not broke like GOWK (and yes GOWK was broke to use) . At least he is melee which means he is at the mercy of a whole squad when exposed, susceptible to riposte, Djem so, Parry and distance that hampers melee figs so much. Bill put 70 on him in half a round with a rag tag crew, with an optimized crew i don't think Tim could have been so bold.
Soresu does need to be treated carefully though. Flobi is about as far as any figure should go, GOWK without mettle and MoTF2 is on the cusp because of knight speed, FR and FP3 but Soresu in of itself is not game breaking, just annoying. Soresu on a non-melee piece would most likely break the game as non-melee is so strong. A melee piece with it brings options but doesn’t break the game unless it’s pumped to ridiculous levels like GOWK.
I do have to wonder what the design crew was thinking when these sets were designed though. Perhaps Rob got careless or bored or perhaps both.

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 Post subject: Re: My Problem with Soresu Style Mastery
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:59 pm 
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well said everybody. I like designing a squad that increases my probabilty of success, but doesn't take it away completely. And I have started to direct damage based squads the past couple tournies I attended and it really is a double edged sword. 1, you need a mix of direct damage types, you can't go all FP for fear of vong and force immunity, but missiles are hardly a sure thing, same as grenades, and flamethrower is a close range devise, and often if the enemy is that close, your already in big trouble. (not always, but on many occasions)

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 Post subject: Re: My Problem with Soresu Style Mastery
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:50 am 
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I think I agree pretty much with everything Dean said. SSM on it's own doesn't really bug me that much, it's simply the fact that there really isn't a viable way to work around it, without using a 'counter'. Like Dean pointed out, Evade has a natural way around it that every figure in the game can utilize: basing. SSM isn't like that. You either have to use Direct Damage or go with Count Dooku of Serreno. While that's certainly not a "the game is dying!" scenario, I personally feel like it adds too much of a luck factor to the game to really be enjoyable. Then again, I'm also the guy who gets annihilated by opponent's dice rolls (got tagged by back-to-back crits from Mandalore the Indomitable last week - 120 damage on my Exar Kun!), like my game at the Chicago Regionals were my GOWK squad got slaughtered by a Vong build because I made 1 save against Thud Bug/Poison the entire game (that 1 in a 100 Deri mentioned, lol).

Honestly, I'd be just as happy if they would tweak Makashi Style Mastery. Right now, MSM says "Soresu Style cannot be used against this character." If they tweaked it to say "Adjacent characters cannot use Soresu Style" that would make a huge difference IMO. Granted, being required to play CDOS in order to counter Obi isn't ideal either, as many of us have said before, but it would at least give a powerful counter to anyone with Soresu Style or SSM. And it makes sense in universe as well. Dooku bases the Jedi, thereby tying up their lightsaber in combat, preventing them from being able to deflect/block any other incoming attacks.

As it stands, I think the new FlObi will end up being OK. I do worry about the issue of playing a game to a tie, and then winning because of the points spread. But we have seen some more pieces with 30+ damage in recent sets, and we've gained some new direct damage stuff recently with pieces like the Sith Lord. Not that all of those are competitive, but honestly, we don't have to worry about the competitiveness of things like that until after the MOTF set next year, for the most part. For now, I'll just have fun. Let the younger guys at the LGS play Flobi all they want. It will give them a great leg up on some of the tougher opponents at the store. I'll continue to play more 'fun' things and see if I can manage to beat the Obi squads without requiring too much luck. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: My Problem with Soresu Style Mastery
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:24 am 
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There are some great points being made here, and a few bad ones. First of all, I agree with almost everything Dean said. SSM is a poorly designed ability that probably was never really playtested, and should be errata'ed to give it a weakness. Ironically, I have been tinkering with the following idea as a squad option that I would take to just about any major tournament:

62 Boba BH
32 Thrawn
26 Kel Dor BH x2
10 Camaasi Noble x2
07 R7 x1
06 Ugnaught x2
04 Gran Raider x1
03 Mouse Droid x2

The idea of this should be fairly obvious. Kill "Flobi" and then spend the rest of the game stalling for the point win. While I agree that is not in the spirit of the game it was originally designed, I believe it IS in the spirit of current DCI play. Dean and I have talked about this before. The way DCI Gambit is written, two people play for one hour and at the end of the round after time is called, the person with the most points wins. Period. It may not be popular or in the sense of fair play for some people, but it IS perfectly legal, and many people employ that strategy into how they run their games. Personally, I think it is a factor in why interest is waning, but so far no ideas on changing it have really met with much fervor.

I do admit, I'm a little surprised at Dean's assertion that SSM introduced total luck into this game without any counters. Boba BH was that way for the longest time. Some of you can argue ways to beat it all day long, but when those 20's come up, it's hasta la vista any way you slice it. Bodyguards can only protect you for so long.
Right now there is only one character with a true counter out there, and ironically Dean ignored him in his rant.

Jar Jar Binks.

Talk about a luck-based character. There are actually squads out there designed to never take a hit. Sure there are ways around that too, but they all face the same sorts of challenges that Flobi-counters do.

Deri is right as well. Almost every game against two players of relatively equal skill comes down to a single die roll, be it the map roll at the start of the game, an initiative roll, or a specific action (attack, save, strategic movement). It has become even more so in the last year.

Finally, all the comments coming in about how Flobi is okay, or that SSM is fine on Flobi, are laughable to me. They are opinions, untested, and based on a comparison of the piece to GOWK. Come back in 6 weeks and then announce your decision about Flobi. I think a lot of people - not all, obviously - will have a change of heart.

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 Post subject: Re: My Problem with Soresu Style Mastery
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:01 am 
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Grand Moff Boris wrote:
Finally, all the comments coming in about how Flobi is okay, or that SSM is fine on Flobi, are laughable to me. They are opinions, untested, and based on a comparison of the piece to GOWK. Come back in 6 weeks and then announce your decision about Flobi. I think a lot of people - not all, obviously - will have a change of heart.


But obviously you've spent the last month testing it and know so much better than everyone else.

or perhaps your just spouting your own opinions. I forget that this is the internet so laughing at people who you disagree with is the norm.

I can see that Flobi is just gonna bring back the same vibe we had with GOWK and that just gonna make me stay away from these discussions and probably even the boards.

Sometimes i wonder whether people realise its just a game.

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 Post subject: Re: My Problem with Soresu Style Mastery
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:12 am 
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fingersandteeth wrote:
Grand Moff Boris wrote:
Finally, all the comments coming in about how Flobi is okay, or that SSM is fine on Flobi, are laughable to me. They are opinions, untested, and based on a comparison of the piece to GOWK. Come back in 6 weeks and then announce your decision about Flobi. I think a lot of people - not all, obviously - will have a change of heart.


But obviously you've spent the last month testing it and know so much better than everyone else.


Actually I have been testing it. I'm not so naive as to say I know better than everyone else, but I was alarmed by what i was seeing occur in the games I played with it.

As for the rest, yeah it is just a game, but it's become a boring game - which is the point of this thread.
No one wants to see this game fail. No one wants it to become boring and stale. Umm, yes I do like green eggs and ham... lol.

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 Post subject: Re: My Problem with Soresu Style Mastery
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:47 am 
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This is a game with a mix of skill and luck, and a lot of recent DCI changes have been specifically intended to reduce the importance of luck.

The map roll was too important? We banned some problematic maps, and combined the map roll and side roll into one, to even things out. There has never been a tactical counter to the map roll (at least not since we stopped placing tiles too).

Initiative was too important? A bunch of initiative control minis were created, along with counters like NTMTO, and most importantly the player who goes first now only activates one character. Bingo, the advantage of going first is cut in half, and init control (and its counters) don't seem to be such a big deal.

The map roll and initiative are still very important, and close matches still hinge on these rolls, but it's a lot harder for a mediocre player to beat an elite player with a few hot rolls.

So is that the issue with SSM on FlObi - it introduces so much luck that an intermediate player could defeat a strong player if the dice roll well? Because there are no tactical counters the strong player could learn and use? Is that what you're seeing Boris?

I want this to be mostly a skill game with a fairly small element of luck. So I agree something like that should only happen rarely. Personally, I don't care if the victory conditions allow "winning by not losing."

Mine is a thoroughly untested opinion, of course. But there are so many multi attacking characters now, there are dozens of attack rolls in a game, compared to maybe 10 initiative rolls and 1 map roll. Seems like things would just even out if you play the odds.

I think FlObi is going to turn out to be very defeatable, you just have to tell yourself he has 240+ hit points, like the Warmaster. (Unlike GOWK who had effectively like 500 HP.) I don't think this is the same magnitude of issue that we had with maps, initiative, or GOWK.


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 Post subject: Re: My Problem with Soresu Style Mastery
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:11 am 
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dnemiller wrote:
I think Jason if you would read my article you would have seen that I am not against luck. I clearly stated my stance on it.


Read it. I didn't disagree with the original post's assertions about luck. Your response to Carl goes further, and goes into territory that's over the top (IMHO of course) and so I quoted and responded to the element I disagree with.

SSM introduces an element of luck that I would prefer had a weakness, but the game is not Yahtzee because of it, didn't generally eliminate skill as the determining factor in games with a difference in skill and made little difference from other luck elements like crucial inits, disintegrations, key evade saves, and key attack misses when skill levels are about even. People have been complaining about luck based outcomes since the inception of the game (VASSAL dice anyone?) and while SSM might go a bit farther than other single abilities the overall difference is not particularly significant.


As an aside, I kind wish people would drop the "laughing" and "LMAO" phrasing from the online usage except in cases of a response to humor. When someone in the real world shares an opinion you disagree with, or is wrong about something you were right about, try laughing your ass off right there and see how it goes over. Bottom line, it always reads the same way, condescending or belittling. Sure, it's just an expression, but it's one that rarely fails to send the wrong message.

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 Post subject: Re: My Problem with Soresu Style Mastery
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:23 am 
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Grand Moff Boris wrote:
Finally, all the comments coming in about how Flobi is okay, or that SSM is fine on Flobi, are laughable to me. They are opinions, untested, and based on a comparison of the piece to GOWK. Come back in 6 weeks and then announce your decision about Flobi. I think a lot of people - not all, obviously - will have a change of heart.


You know Dennis....please back off on these kinds of statements. We all know by now that you feel differently about Flobi than several of the rest of us. But you don't have to continually attack the integrity of our statements by calling them untested, etc. etc. We KNOW that they are mostly opinions at this point. But have some faith in the players of the game. We play-test things. We run through scenarios in our head. We build potential squads and see how they fair against each other.

You're decrying the opinions of some of the best players in the game. Yes, I'm sure we all agree that Flobi will be a pain in the rear to deal with. But not as bad as GOWK. THAT has been the statement. Not that Flobi will not be a factor in competitive gaming. Of course SSM on Flobi is going to be tough. Of course he's going to shape the meta. Is he broken like GOWK was? I don't think even you would say that he needs to be banned right now.

But you can state your difference of opinion, and the reasons behind your opinion, without calling out the opinions of others as "laughable". You don't have any more of a leg to stand on than the rest of us. Not trying to cause a problem here, just pointing out the slight hypocritical nature of your opinions. Time will certainly tell. Honestly though, without any major competitive events on the horizon until after the Dark Times set comes out, I really don't think we'll be getting a good idea of how dominating Flobi will be until early spring.

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 Post subject: Re: My Problem with Soresu Style Mastery
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:39 am 
Dark Lord of the Sith
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Well I disgree that we wont have any major events till the spring. Pastimes is trying to do a Gencon Badge Tournament everyother month or so. The Fall Classic in Chicago should get a good 20 or so. DCI vassal events should be coming back soon. There will be a DCI Vassal Tournament league coming soon maybe not till spring.I dont want to do anything about that league till we know when regionals will be. All of these events might not get 30 plus but they should give us a little bit more info than we have had in the past. I do think QQ JM,Rex,FlObi will be tier 2-2.5 I know it only has 6 acts but on paper it looks a little scary to me.


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 Post subject: Re: My Problem with Soresu Style Mastery
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:43 am 
The One True Sith Lord
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Well guys I did not write this for it to become a Gowk ban fight.

I have tested the FLobi and SSM mostly in my head... He doesnt seem to come up with Bannable. But I also worked out where he can mimmick Gowk for a while almost exactly. I am sure everyone has thought of the Quigon Force Spirit scenario. With a dead Qui Gon Flobi basically defensively becomes Gowk. With that said he still is not carrying around one of the most powerful CE's in the game. I guess you can hold off killing Quigon but then that 101 points you have not touched.... quite a bit in a 150 point game to leave out there.

Please remember too. I was not writing this in response to Flobi. It was just something I wanted to get off my chest after now kind of having SSM shoved in my face for over a year. It is over a year since I saw this ability since I got the starters a bit early to check out the maps.

I will disagree with you though Dennis on the Jar Jar. Again Jar Jar is not hard to kill and has always had its own weakness. Shooting him from across the board or really not having any of your own pieces within 6 of him.

That again is my problem. There is no counter. As Deri said it is playing probablilities. Your opponent cant keep making a save of 11...... but wait with Quigon we are right back to 3. So he can make that. I know you he doesnt have renewal..... but as evidenced by Carl's assessment that is fine because he wont need renewal..... he will just play slow.


I mean hell if someone really wanted to get Flobi going at any point during the game just bring in a bunch of uggies and a MTB!!!! Get rid of Quigon on your terms not your oppponents

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 Post subject: Re: My Problem with Soresu Style Mastery
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:11 am 
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Yesterday it finally clicked in my head, the conundrum you present to an opponent if you are playing Qui-Gon and FlObi. Kill Qui-Gon first and FlObi will never die. But killing FlObi first is very difficult.

I've been thinking about running FlObi with a handful of Caamasi Nobles and a Rodian Trader - a bunch of Diplomats with Heal 10 will make him even harder to kill.


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 Post subject: Re: My Problem with Soresu Style Mastery
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:04 am 
Master of the Order
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LoboStele wrote:
You know Dennis....please back off on these kinds of statements. We all know by now that you feel differently about Flobi than several of the rest of us. But you don't have to continually attack the integrity of our statements by calling them untested, etc. etc. We KNOW that they are mostly opinions at this point. But have some faith in the players of the game. We play-test things. We run through scenarios in our head. We build potential squads and see how they fair against each other.


Fair enough. I have yet to see or hear anyone talk about actual playtesting they did with the piece IN A GAME, though. I have actually played the piece on a map a few times, so I disagree that I am on the same level opinion-wise as someone who hasn't done that.

And do I really need to point out the irony of the contradiction between this assessment of my opinion and your assessment of people's opinions that the game is in trouble? It's the pot calling the kettle black from where I'm sitting.

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