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 Post subject: Re: So how do we put a stop to this?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:08 pm 
Master of the Order
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Here's a thought, for those concerned about the record keeping. Typically, I use six-sided dice for tracking rounds of gambit. Instead of just putting it off to the side somewhere, if you used an Ugnaught to collect gambit for two rounds, then put a dice on the Ugo card, with the 2 facing up. Then on the gran card next to it, put a separate dice showing however many rounds of 4 point pieces gained gambit. Then could have a final 3rd die to track the full 5 point rounds. Something like that.

Yes, writing down the score at the end of every round is the best method. But for those used to using a die/dice to track gambit, this would make for a quick and easy adjustment.

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 Post subject: Re: So how do we put a stop to this?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:08 pm 
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@Deri
Well said. I was mostly convinced before, but now I'll say I'm almost completely convinced. :)

@Everyone
For extrapolation purposes and continuing the brainstorming, what would the effect be of letting the max go a bit higher than 5? Let's start with up to 10 maybe?

Do we reach a point where you might think about putting a solid defensive piece out there and try for a 10 point swing? Or does this put too much focus on objective scoring over kill scoring and negatively effect the game pace?

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Last edited by NickName on Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: So how do we put a stop to this?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:12 pm 
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I don' think you want to make getting to the center to valuable.

Its supposed to force confrontation but it shouldn't really be a method for scoring large points.

10 points is big, i could see people running high activation squads and using a 10 pointed piece as your gambit runner.

5 is plenty.

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 Post subject: Re: So how do we put a stop to this?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:14 pm 
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Swoop bike ftw! :)

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 Post subject: Re: So how do we put a stop to this?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:16 pm 
Imperial Dignitaries
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You could always have it be something like 1/5 (or insert fraction here) of the combined point value of all of your pieces in gambit. Reward players who are willing to bring their entire squad up into gambit. And anyone doing a 10 gran raider swarm will meet a Yobuck and promptly get obliterated..

Though Nom Bomb with this gets *really* interesting. Also, swap + outactivating means you bring in, say, LV at the end of a round, then swap him out.


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 Post subject: Re: So how do we put a stop to this?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:45 pm 
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billiv15 wrote:
Swoop bike ftw! :)


Ha. But we have the built in counter that if you lose init and it can be sniped it's 10-10 and you're down an act.

Pretty interesting dynamic...

It would seem to favor putting in a GenoHaradan or something.

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 Post subject: Re: So how do we put a stop to this?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:51 pm 
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This idea sounds tons better than mine,which after thinking about wasn't that grand of an idea due to mouse odrids and what not




fingersandteeth wrote:
it doesn't really matter what happens to Lobots usage.

Tayloring to the squad you face will or should never lose its appeal.

This change doesn't totally diminish the value of out activating someone, it just narrows the options that you can do when you do outactivate someone.
.


so now its narowing the meta in a good way unlike GOWK which was a terriable horrible bad way.....

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 Post subject: Re: So how do we put a stop to this?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:23 pm 
Master of the Order
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NickName wrote:
@Everyone
For extrapolation purposes and continuing the brainstorming, what would the effect be of letting the max go a bit higher than 5? Let's start with up to 10 maybe?


Hahaha, that's funny. I made my earlier reply, then was doing stuff around the house, and that's exactly what I thought of as well.

The other guys make good points, and things like Rieekan plus 10 point pieces could be annoying, even if you do win init.

I would say leave it at 5 points for 100 or 150 point games, but perhaps consider going up to 10 for 200 point games.

What about a bonus for having 50% or more of your squad in the gambit zone? Extra 5 points?

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 Post subject: Re: So how do we put a stop to this?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:12 pm 
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ender_ wrote:
fingersandteeth wrote:
it doesn't really matter what happens to Lobots usage.

Tayloring to the squad you face will or should never lose its appeal.

This change doesn't totally diminish the value of out activating someone, it just narrows the options that you can do when you do outactivate someone.
.


so now its narowing the meta in a good way unlike GOWK which was a terriable horrible bad way.....


its not narrowing the meta, its actually expanding it. In the most recent meta the best use for Lobot was either loads of activations because everybady wanted to put thier mouse into gambit last or bring a BGD (at least thats I saw everyone using).
If loads of activations loses its appeal somewhat then you're gonna use more options available to 'power' you squad rather than dilute it with activations just so you can go last and score easily.

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 Post subject: Re: So how do we put a stop to this?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:12 am 
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NickName wrote:
@Deri
Well said. I was mostly convinced before, but now I'll say I'm almost completely convinced. :)

@Everyone
For extrapolation purposes and continuing the brainstorming, what would the effect be of letting the max go a bit higher than 5? Let's start with up to 10 maybe?

Do we reach a point where you might think about putting a solid defensive piece out there and try for a 10 point swing? Or does this put too much focus on objective scoring over kill scoring and negatively effect the game pace?



I'm actually liking the idea too

but here something else for brain storming

How about figures 10 pts or less count as half rounded down in gambit and all else worth 5 points? So you still never get more then 5 points but makes you bring in more power to the center to get the 5.

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 Post subject: Re: So how do we put a stop to this?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:45 am 
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I would not mind if only figures which cost 5 or more could score gambit either, as per jdjersey's suggestion. The activation edge provided by cost 3 and 4 pieces compared to cost 5 pieces (in addition to the general utility of in particular Mouse droids and Ugnaught Demolitionists) would still seem to guarantee they'd see play. Also record keeping would be somewhat easier. Would it be a problem if Ugnaughts could not score gambit points? Currently I find cost 5 pieces a bit diffucult to justify using most of the time. Since their main benefit seem to be the activation they provide and cost 3 or 4 pieces does the same thing much better. The 5 pointers could do with a boost I think. Would the downside be that people might be less inclined to go for gambit if they would have to risk at least 5 points to do it?

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 Post subject: Re: So how do we put a stop to this?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:30 am 
Imperial Dignitaries
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NickName wrote:
@Everyone
For extrapolation purposes and continuing the brainstorming, what would the effect be of letting the max go a bit higher than 5? Let's start with up to 10 maybe?

Do we reach a point where you might think about putting a solid defensive piece out there and try for a 10 point swing? Or does this put too much focus on objective scoring over kill scoring and negatively effect the game pace?


Well, I wouldn't grant 10 points per sé, but you could grant double gambit score, if the opponent has no mini in gambit. This way an Ugnaught could score a "whooping" 6 points, if the opponent doesn't manage to get someone else into gambit.

The downside of this idea is that some maps have gambit zones that are easier accessed from one side than the other. But if you pull back your gambit scorer and the opponent places his in return into gambit, you are at the receiving end again, so it should encourage to engage the enemy squad instead of sitting tight and waiting for Santa Claus to come and give you all those nice beatsticks to chew on because you scored gambit with a Lobot scrub.

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 Post subject: Re: So how do we put a stop to this?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:05 am 
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Ukezwoll wrote:
I would not mind if only figures which cost 5 or more could score gambit either, as per jdjersey's suggestion. The activation edge provided by cost 3 and 4 pieces compared to cost 5 pieces (in addition to the general utility of in particular Mouse droids and Ugnaught Demolitionists) would still seem to guarantee they'd see play. Also record keeping would be somewhat easier. Would it be a problem if Ugnaughts could not score gambit points? Currently I find cost 5 pieces a bit diffucult to justify using most of the time. Since their main benefit seem to be the activation they provide and cost 3 or 4 pieces does the same thing much better. The 5 pointers could do with a boost I think. Would the downside be that people might be less inclined to go for gambit if they would have to risk at least 5 points to do it?


I agree with Ukezwoll's point about the diminished utility of 5 pointers (which could be extended to 6 or 7 point minis as well). Limiting gambit-getting to 5 pointers and keeping it's value at a solid 5 also seems like a simpler change, while accomplishing the same goal. It forces more diversity in squad composition. Having a 3 point character that helps dealing with doors, augmenting activations AND gambit-getting might be a little too good anyways.

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 Post subject: Re: So how do we put a stop to this?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:38 am 
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I could be convinced. You must risk at minimum the reward. Solves the minor recordkeeping issue with variable reward gambit as well.

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 Post subject: Re: So how do we put a stop to this?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:42 pm 
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Yeah, I really do feel that keeping it at 5 points only would keep things streamlined. There are already tons of reasons to have plenty of mouse droids and ugs in a squad, I don't think they'll suffer much by not being able to collect gambit.


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 Post subject: Re: So how do we put a stop to this?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:18 am 
Black Sun Thug
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how about you have win by a certain amount of poits for to be considered a win. Oh say one would have to win by more than 5 points(just a number off my head) for a win, if a game goes to time. EX a game goes to time player A has 45 points and B has 47. it would considered a tie game because of a 2 point difference.

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