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 Post subject: Re: Has the 150 point game become Rebels only?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:40 am 
Master of the Order
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Mickey wrote:
Bill, I don't want to sound harsh but your whole reply reeks of "it is all about winning". As I said in another post, if I do get lucky and make it to GenCon next year, I won't be playing championship minis because that is not my style. It's too competitive and your post just proves it.


But that's what a 'Championship' is all about. Two teams don't show up to the Superbowl and play their 2nd string guys because "having fun" is their top priority. Is a Championship event "all about winning"? Of course it is! Honestly, otherwise, there wouldn't be much sense in calling it a Championship event.

If that's not your cup of tea, than that's fine. But it doesn't invalidate the rest of the conversation.
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However, I think there are many different squad types out there that can be competitive at that championship level. Sure the rebels have some nice synergy going for it, but I do think other squads can compete. I really disagree rebels are dominating the field. I think the real story is rebels are dominating the squad builds.


Responses like this show to me a lack of experience in the truly, high-end competitive game. Which is perfectly OK! Not everyone likes that style, or enjoys it, and we don't expect everyone to be experienced in it. But if you disagree that Rebels are the top dogs right now, then it really is because you don't have enough experience with top squads against other top level players in order to get a better picture of it all.

Yes, there are other squads that can compete. There's been plenty of other discussion in this thread and others about that. But there are a LOT of factors that go into which squads dominate, and the most prevalent of those are map choice. I really DIDN'T want to play GOWK at the Regionals, or Rebels w/ Snowspeeder at Gencon. Neither of those appeal to my 'fun' side all that much. But after a lot of play testing, practicing, looking at other options and such, and knowing that I was entering a Championship event, I ultimately had to go with what I felt would give me the best chance to win. I desperately wanted to play San Hill in the Chamipionships. The squad I've been playing with lately (Aurra JH, Dash RS, TBSV, Jarael, Lobot, San, Ugo) is a lot of fun for me. But the main problem was that if I lost map, and had to play against the Snowspeeder on Teth or Taris, it was nearly an auto-loss for me. Same thing with the New Republic build that I was leaning heavily towards (Mara Jedi, Vong Ossus Guardian, Dash RS, Lobot, Jag Fel, Dodonna, Ugo). Both of those ARE solid squads, and many top players could run those and probably do well. Sure, if EVERYONE in the top 16 or so ran squads like that, they would end up at the top instead of the Snowspeeder. But all it would've taken was 2-3 map roll wins to go in favor of the Snowspeeder squads, and those other factions would've dropped out of the top. Even if the San/NR squads won map roll, the Snowspeeder squads could still have a decent chance of winning.

THAT's the problem with Rebels right now. The maps like Teth and Taris cater to the Snowspeeder so much so, that the few squad builds that can really compete against the SS on other maps, have a REALLY tough time on Teth/Taris. Without those maps in the competitive field, I would have absolutely run one of the other factions.

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I saw GOWK banned and I sure don't want to see Rieekan following. I'm not saying that is going to happen, but I am saying I don't want to see this trend. I'm hoping it ends with GOWK myself. Instead of talking about what needs to be changed with the rebels why not start talking about new squad builds that can compete at the national level.


Have you seen ANYONE who wanted GOWK to get banned call for Rieekan or any other Rebels to be banned since GenCon? No. Heck, we knew the Rieekan/Snowspeeder combo would be annoying back when Rieekan came out in IE, but nobody pushed the issue for a ban then. If anything, a couple maps may disappear from the DCI Legal list, but if Bill's other suggestions take hold, they will just disappear from the 'Championship' format, and still be legal for the more casual 'Open' formats.

Honestly, there's not a whole lot of point in talking about squad builds that can compete at the national level. We don't spend tons of time discussing them, because most of the top level players have already figured them out. They were figured out before GenCon. There won't be much need to discuss national level squad building until another new set comes out.

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 Post subject: Re: Has the 150 point game become Rebels only?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:17 pm 
Death Star Designers
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That's all well and good mickey, but that doesnt stop the fact that the rebels are too overpowered - at least at the 150 level. No other faction has all the tech, abilities and commanders that the rebels have. Most factions have maybe half what the rebels have, but nowhere near as good or as cheap.

If there were so many other squad types out there that could compete at 150 we would have seen a much more diverse field.

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 Post subject: Re: Has the 150 point game become Rebels only?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:12 pm 
Black Sun Thug
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You're right, that was not fair to say that champions should not be about winning. I would describe myself more a casual player so champions would definitely not be my cup of tea.

I think the New Republic can give the rebs a good run. They have alot of the same mechanics, but yes they do cost more. They lack some good shooters but fringe have some nice ones and I'm hoping Cad Bane adds to this mix.

BTW I have seen some posts where people are wanting to ban Rieekan. Just not here. I just don't want to see banning and rule changes to level the playing fields for players to compete.

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 Post subject: Re: Has the 150 point game become Rebels only?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:37 pm 
Death Star Designers
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IN a 1-1 here and there match, yes NR is good, but rebels are so much more. Note that there were 0 NR in the top 8. Someone that know the lsit better, what was the highest NR? I know some good people were playing NR, but in 150 where you have to squeeze every last ounce you can out of every point, rebels can do everything so much cheaper than everyone else. This is where Rob made a real mess in balance.

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