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 Post subject: Were the regionals a Success?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 3:34 pm 
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SO were the regionals a success? Do you think it is something Jim and WOTC will be able to do again next year? I have to say in all the reports I have read I have only read one bad post in all of them. And that came out of my venue so I am well aware of it, and that it was handled.

I hope that it happens again next year. I think it was a great day, and it was great meeting some new players from other locals.

I also think Gowk did what he was expected to do, not win outright, but dominate the field, and he did. Consider the vast number of squads that didn't make the top 8 at most of the events, and with a couple of exceptions, GOWK was not in the bottom to often.

So was your regional a success was it a great time? Do you look forward to it next year?

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 Post subject: Re: Were the regionals a Success?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 3:41 pm 
Master of the Order
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I would definitely say that the Regionals were a success over all. Granted, some of the organizational stuff (on WOTC's side, not Jim's...Jim did an EXCELLENT job) was a bit screwy, but overall, it's all going to work out fine.

I think they will be MUCH better next year, if they are able to hold them earlier in the year. From what Jim has said, that seems to be the plan, it's just that they kind of got a late start on the whole idea this year. So, if they are able to hold Regionals in, say, February and March next year, then I think they'll work perfectly.

Honestly, the only thing I could possibly complain about at all is that WOTC didn't have their ducks in a row in terms of getting the badges to the winners for each event. Now, luckily, it's going to all work out, because Moses is the man. So, hopefully, doing the Regionals earlier next year, should alleviate that problem altogether!

I'm DEFINITELY hoping they do this again next year. I had a blast going to the different ones, so I'll look forward to being able to do that again as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Were the regionals a Success?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:29 pm 
The One True Sith Lord
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Well my thoughts on the Regionals is that they were a success.

We have not had a time where we had so many no convention large tournaments drew such big numbers. I think that is great. I am hoping that next year we can add other locations and expand the number of Regional events that can support them.

Were there some weaknesses? Yes and I am not going to call them negatives. The weaknesses of the events were exploited and now we have a chance to go back review what can be done to insure a better Regional Qualifier series in year two.

Some of the weaknesses I would like to see resolved.

1. The third tiebreaker became an evident problem thanks to the Regionals. The universal floor rules allow for the adaptation of a third tiebreaker to be used that is not the what time did the player register. I think before next year we need to implement that system whatever it may be.

2. I think there is a need for the Regionals to run uniformly. Meaning all should have playoffs not just some. I think the events proved big enough that you can have a 4 player playoff for each event.

3. I think that there needs to be some rules about the prizes. Look I personally love the idea of someone travelling and going to each Regional. I would personally love to do that to. When the Regionals were scheduled though no one thought someone could win multiple events. So I think in hindsight it shouldbe fine to play in as many as you want but you should only get to have one badge. If you already have one but want to play for bragging rights that is cool. But if you have one the 2nd place player should get it. Just my thoughts there I dont think anyone should be too upset by that.

4. This one is kind of out of our hands but have Wizards approve and schedule these events a little further out from Genocn. This gives the venues more time to advertise and make sure we have a large turnout at everyone. Maybe designate a liason between Jim and each venue to make sure certain things are happening. I know there were a couple of the Regionals that had relatively low attendance compared to others. I cannot help but think that if there had been more time and someone insuring that advetsising steps were being taken this might not have happened.


Overall I think this was one of Star Wars Miniatures finest moments for the community. Our voices were heard and Wizards listened. All in all a great thing for sure. I think going forward and addressing these minor issues will insure that we have a terrific Regional experience for years to come.

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 Post subject: Re: Were the regionals a Success?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:37 pm 
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Well I thought they were a blast. I had the opportunity to attended 3 of them and the were all a blast. I agree with Dean on all 4 points he brought up. He makes valid points on all of them. I personally cannot to wait to attend next year. I would like them all held in May. I only think this because of how busy my early spring is.

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 Post subject: Re: Were the regionals a Success?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:30 pm 
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The only thing from an outside perspective I would have like to have seen (other than a West/East Canadian Regional of course) was the GowK ban enforced BEFORE the Regionals...just to see how the squads would have matched up after the fact.

And also of course, see JA released before them too I guess.

I agree with Dean on all his points and do totally think this was a definitive moment in the SWM universe.

Great job to everyone involved making it happen!!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Were the regionals a Success?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:44 pm 
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I think the regionals were great. Only thing that took away from it was GOWK(since he soresu'd all of my IG-86's attacks). But overall I enjoyed it and hope that there will be regionals next year.

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 Post subject: Re: Were the regionals a Success?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:30 pm 
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I second the idea for Canadian regionals. We're left out of enough stuff :)

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 Post subject: Re: Were the regionals a Success?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:39 am 
Master of the Order
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Fool wrote:
The only thing from an outside perspective I would have like to have seen (other than a West/East Canadian Regional of course) was the GowK ban enforced BEFORE the Regionals...just to see how the squads would have matched up after the fact.


This would've been a terrible idea, IMO. It would have had the same effect that GOWK is having now on GenCon. You have barely a month to play-test squads and other things like that. Having a meta get shook up immediately before big competitive events means that you don't necessarily get a true representation of people's skill levels versus each other. You get a measure of who was smart enough or lucky enough to figure out the power combos right away.

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And also of course, see JA released before them too I guess.


Well, this would've been cool, but not feasible this year because of when JA was coming out. Holding them in May/June was already too late in the year. Besides, if they waited till after JA released, then what's to say that it wouldn't have been better after GAW was released? LOL. An event is ALWAYS going to be better after the NEXT set (so long as no GOWK-esque broken pieces are in said set and screw everything up).

From what Jim and Sarah have said so far, it really sounds like they want to do the Regionals earlier in the year next year. With Dark Times scheduled for January, and MOTF for April, it would seem to me that holding the Regionals in late February, or March and early April would be the best bet. Do exactly like they did with JA, and tell the various game stores that they have to finish their Regionals by a few days before the MOTF set comes out. That way, the meta is the same for all of the Regionals. Of course, on the other hand, part of me agrees with jew3, that holding them in May/June could be better for anyone who is in school, but would like to travel to a Regional in another area. But, can't cater to everyone either, and honestly, WOTC obviously needs more time between the end of the Regionals and Gencon in order to get the winners their badges. :P So, for that reason alone, I'd like to see them earlier in the year.

Honestly, I truly think that the entire thing was a success this year. Since Jim was able to work out the stuff with the badges, and he's going to personally hand deliver them to the winners when they arrive in Indy, then there's absolutely nothing I have to complain about the entire thing. I think moving them earlier next year would be a good improvement, but honestly it doesn't matter much to me one way or the other.

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 Post subject: Re: Were the regionals a Success?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:50 am 
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I don't think they should be held earlier than March due to the risk of inclement weather. Even March might be too early for somewhere like Golden City, MO. :P

Suffering through one of the worst ice storms in recent local history really changes your perspective on planning around the weather.

Regarding this year's Regionals, it sounded like just about all of them went off great. I know ours sure did!

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 Post subject: Re: Were the regionals a Success?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:57 am 
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i had a BLAST at mine! i agree with the points brought up, but i think they should keep the dates the same. being a student i realy can't afford to go to a regional in spring. i prefer summer.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:30 am 
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Grand Moff Boris wrote:
I don't think they should be held earlier than March due to the risk of inclement weather. Even March might be too early for somewhere like Golden City, MO. :P

Suffering through one of the worst ice storms in recent local history really changes your perspective on planning around the weather.

Regarding this year's Regionals, it sounded like just about all of them went off great. I know ours sure did!


Oooh, good point. Honestly, WOTC has figured out some of the issues with timing this year, and even if they decide to do them in May/June again next year, I'm sure they could avoid the issue of getting badges to the winners easier than it was this year. Regardless though, if they use the same system next year, where whoever is in charge of running the SWM events (hopefully Jim still ;) ) just gets the badges and brings them for the Regional winners, that works just fine too, so honestly it really won't matter when they hold the regionals.

I'd prefer them to be held a minimum of 1 month after a new set has released, and not bridging over the release of a new set (like half before the new set releases and half after). Helps to give some better indicators to compare one regional to another, and the introduction of a new set always turns things upside down, so good to give people time to develop new squads and such.

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 Post subject: Re: Were the regionals a Success?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:38 am 
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Aaron, I completly see where you are comming from, but I really think a late April/May block of six weeks is the way to go. I think we won't have any trouble with the badges, weather or time left to make a squad competitive before GenCon. That is why I think May is the to go.

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 Post subject: Re: Were the regionals a Success?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:13 pm 
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Two things

1) Not all places can pull off playoffs. I think a good chunk of our players would not have gone two days. We went six rounds as is, dropping in another 2 or 3 (also, I believe we would have had 5 5-1s, so someone would have been hosed out of top 4) rounds the next day would have been brutal, and lowered attendance. Also, for events that pull 12-16, playoffs can be done in the same day. 30+, not quite as much. Let the TOs do their thing for planning the tournament; they know the area and the players and the nuances of each the best, and can cater to their area to maximize participation.

2) One of the nice things about late June for us was that you had a lot of people who were off of college by then (UW runs into Mid-June), so we were able to schedule our regional to accommodate them. Give a range, maybe any weekend following the release of Masters of the Force until the end of June. This way, you give people the option of going to multiple regionals (since they are spread out time-wise), and letting local TOs nail down what will be the best specific weekend within that timeframe. If a TO decides to do a regional later, they run the risk of the GenCon badge issue. Let them make that determination for themselves?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:30 pm 
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jew3 wrote:
Aaron, I completly see where you are comming from, but I really think a late April/May block of six weeks is the way to go. I think we won't have any trouble with the badges, weather or time left to make a squad competitive before GenCon. That is why I think May is the to go.


Yeah, the more I think about it, and look at how things played out this year, the more I'm OK with the May/June time-frame. Honestly, WOTC will KNOW ahead of time that they need X number of badges for X number of Regional events. There was no excuse for WOTC to wait until AFTER all the Regionals were completed to get the badges together. Somebody made a great recommendation on the WOTC forums, and that was for WOTC to send the info for the badge to the LGS where each Regional will be held, and then hand that info directly to whoever wins the event. I really think that would be the best way to do it. Heck, even if they follow the same path as this year, and don't get the Gencon badge info until after all the Regionals, at least get the info before the last day of badge registration. :roll:

And I do have to agree with those raising concerns over school conflicts, weather problems, and things like that. Those would definitely decrease participation. Heck, even here in southern OH, we tend to get our nastiest ice storms in the Feb/March time-frame. That would totally suck to have a Regional planned, and then a major weather problem cause nobody to show up for it. Would you be able to reschedule something like that? Would you be able to get notice out to people fast enough, etc.?

Yeah, I think the April/May time-frame may be better then. How about make the time frame such that it extends from 2 weeks after the MOTF set comes out, and goes for 6-8 weeks after that. Gets all the Regionals done by the end of June, just like this year.

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 Post subject: Re: Were the regionals a Success?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:31 pm 
The One True Sith Lord
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Cybit wrote:
Two things

1) Not all places can pull off playoffs. I think a good chunk of our players would not have gone two days. We went six rounds as is, dropping in another 2 or 3 (also, I believe we would have had 5 5-1s, so someone would have been hosed out of top 4) rounds the next day would have been brutal, and lowered attendance. Also, for events that pull 12-16, playoffs can be done in the same day. 30+, not quite as much. Let the TOs do their thing for planning the tournament; they know the area and the players and the nuances of each the best, and can cater to their area to maximize participation.

2) One of the nice things about late June for us was that you had a lot of people who were off of college by then (UW runs into Mid-June), so we were able to schedule our regional to accommodate them. Give a range, maybe any weekend following the release of Masters of the Force until the end of June. This way, you give people the option of going to multiple regionals (since they are spread out time-wise), and letting local TOs nail down what will be the best specific weekend within that timeframe. If a TO decides to do a regional later, they run the risk of the GenCon badge issue. Let them make that determination for themselves?


I really dont get what you mean by 2 days. We had our playoffs and it just added to rounds. it was a 4 player single elimination playoff

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 Post subject: Re: Were the regionals a Success?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:58 pm 
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dnemiller wrote:
Cybit wrote:
Two things

1) Not all places can pull off playoffs. I think a good chunk of our players would not have gone two days. We went six rounds as is, dropping in another 2 or 3 (also, I believe we would have had 5 5-1s, so someone would have been hosed out of top 4) rounds the next day would have been brutal, and lowered attendance. Also, for events that pull 12-16, playoffs can be done in the same day. 30+, not quite as much. Let the TOs do their thing for planning the tournament; they know the area and the players and the nuances of each the best, and can cater to their area to maximize participation.

2) One of the nice things about late June for us was that you had a lot of people who were off of college by then (UW runs into Mid-June), so we were able to schedule our regional to accommodate them. Give a range, maybe any weekend following the release of Masters of the Force until the end of June. This way, you give people the option of going to multiple regionals (since they are spread out time-wise), and letting local TOs nail down what will be the best specific weekend within that timeframe. If a TO decides to do a regional later, they run the risk of the GenCon badge issue. Let them make that determination for themselves?


I really dont get what you mean by 2 days. We had our playoffs and it just added to rounds. it was a 4 player single elimination playoff


I think what he means is when you are looking at a 4-6 hour drive, it won't be something that some people want to do in a single day if in addition to 5 hours of swiss they are looking at 2-3 additional hours waiting for some of their friends to finish. So it could mean an overnight trip, and then you are talking hotel room and other related expenses.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:09 pm 
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Cybit wrote:
Two things

1) Not all places can pull off playoffs. I think a good chunk of our players would not have gone two days. We went six rounds as is, dropping in another 2 or 3 (also, I believe we would have had 5 5-1s, so someone would have been hosed out of top 4) rounds the next day would have been brutal, and lowered attendance. Also, for events that pull 12-16, playoffs can be done in the same day. 30+, not quite as much. Let the TOs do their thing for planning the tournament; they know the area and the players and the nuances of each the best, and can cater to their area to maximize participation.

2) One of the nice things about late June for us was that you had a lot of people who were off of college by then (UW runs into Mid-June), so we were able to schedule our regional to accommodate them. Give a range, maybe any weekend following the release of Masters of the Force until the end of June. This way, you give people the option of going to multiple regionals (since they are spread out time-wise), and letting local TOs nail down what will be the best specific weekend within that timeframe. If a TO decides to do a regional later, they run the risk of the GenCon badge issue. Let them make that determination for themselves?


Well, to some degree, I see where you're coming from here. However, none of the Regionals should have to go more than 6 rounds (32-64 players) for the Swiss portion, and most would only go for 5 rounds (if we are able to add a couple more Regionals next year, perhaps the WA one wouldn't have to be so big). If you do a play-off, you would only do the Top 4, which would be another 2 rounds. That's 8 rounds total, roughly 9 hours total. Anyone who intends to play in the Championships at GenCon needs to be prepared to play 7 rounds of Swiss, for about 9-10 hours total. So, on the one hand, it would be really good practice.

For anyone who is local to the event, doing a 9 hour tournament, including the 2 rounds of play-offs, wouldn't be a big deal. Start the tourney at 10am, be done around 7, perfect time to go have dinner, or get home at a nice time. For anyone who isn't local, they are probably staying overnight at least one, maybe two nights already anyways, even for just the regular 5 or 6 round Swiss tournament. So long as people know ahead of time what the event is going to be, they can plan accordingly. And honestly, there isn't a single person who would have to pay for hotel costs, as I'm sure plenty of players at every event would be able to house an out-of-towner or two for a couple nights. Heck, that was one of the best parts about going to the Chicago Regional for me: getting to hang out the night before with everybody.

In addition, most of the Regionals started at 10 or 11am. Could bump the start time up to 9am if necessary. There's plenty of ways to do it, and honestly, it ends up being a lot fairer for everyone in the long run. Plus, only the #1 and #2 people have to play all the rounds. If you're working for a GenCon badge, it makes it 100% worthwhile to spend that extra time.

I know for both the Cincy and Owensboro Regionals, play-offs would've been cool. In Cincy, it might have given me another shot to beat James, and not make so many stupid mistakes. Or it would have given Lackey another chance to beat James, and not get hosed because of a lucky Disintegration. In Owensboro, it would've given Carl another chance and not make a pad placement error, allowing his GOWK to get pushed into a pit. Things of that nature. Play-offs are a REALLY great way to fully test a person's skill level, and help to remove the 'luck' factor from the equation. Plus, it gives people some hope when they lose a game, that they may not be entirely out of the running.

However, like Cybit pointed out, they had 5 people at 5-1 after 6 rounds. If you do a Top 4, need to have a cut and dry methodology for determining that tie-breaker. Could be another good reason to reevaluate the Tie-Breaker system in the DCI Floor Rules and tweak as necessary.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:47 pm 
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I think for the most part in terms of playoff a set standard should be had. I do see how it could inconvience some players, but I'm sure the community can think of something. As for the time frame, whether is a big issue. I though April / May was fine. Especially for travel conditions. Too many wierd snowstorms happen for enoguh of us in March. However I do like the idea of a set drop with the regionals. But to do that they would have to be held on a uniformed date everywhere. And that prolly isn't possible.

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