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 Post subject: Re: OK The Floor Rules are UP
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:39 pm 
Moff Disra
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Grand Moff Boris wrote:
What would be nice for the Championship is if we could do what the DDM Championship used to do at GenCon, and that is rotate the map that can be played on each round.

For example:

Round 1 - Death Star
Round 2 - Muunilist Command Center
Round 3 - Taris
Round 4 - Chancellor's Throne Room
Round 5 - Death Star
Round 6 - Hall of Judgement
Round 7- Rancor Pen

But it's not really practical.

I think this is a great idea. I agree, it won't work well in practice (too bad).


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 Post subject: Re: OK The Floor Rules are UP
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:45 pm 
Master of the Order
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The worst legal map right now is the hardboard

I HATE that map!

It is unbalanced, and it has been shown again and again how it can be exploited.

And I also hate that it is the ONLY odd sized map. To add to that problem, it has a GIANT sized gambit area.


It needs to go before any other map. Dean - it really needs to be on your list to reconsider.


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 Post subject: Re: OK The Floor Rules are UP
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:47 pm 
Hall of Fame Member
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Thanks for working so hard on this, Dean.

I can imagine it can feel pretty thankless at times, particulally when people disagee with the descisions.

However, i know your heart and head are in the right place and i'm just glad that someone like yourself are willing to sacrifice your time to ensure the persistent adaption fo the DCI rules to the game.

Your work gives more weight to the competitive game and allows us all to enjoy the game in a balanced manner.

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 Post subject: Re: OK The Floor Rules are UP
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:54 pm 
Death Star Designers
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TimmerB123 wrote:
The worst legal map right now is the hardboard

I HATE that map!

It is unbalanced, and it has been shown again and again how it can be exploited.

And I also hate that it is the ONLY odd sized map. To add to that problem, it has a GIANT sized gambit area.


It needs to go before any other map. Dean - it really needs to be on your list to reconsider.



I LOVE that map! :shock:

And I agree with you 100% :)

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 Post subject: Re: OK The Floor Rules are UP
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:13 pm 
Jedi Knight
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Grand Moff Boris wrote:
As much as I hate open Gambit for all of the reasons Bill laid out as well as a few other reasons, I don't think we should remove any more maps from the game. As Rob once said directly to me, it's only a 50/50 chance to play on any particular map, meaning the map roll at the beginning of the game dictates what will happen.

But until Chris West makes more maps, removing many of the ones that we have gotten in the last year is like saying they were never really made at all, as far as sanctioned play is concerned. Let's give it a year and if there are 3 or 4 more maps out there by then, particularly ones that are solid for skirmish play, then maybe we could look at removing some of the current ones. But I think there should always be one or two on the list that are very shooter friendly. I don't mind the presence of Taris all that much.

What would be nice for the Championship is if we could do what the DDM Championship used to do at GenCon, and that is rotate the map that can be played on each round.

For example:

Round 1 - Death Star
Round 2 - Muunilist Command Center
Round 3 - Taris
Round 4 - Chancellor's Throne Room
Round 5 - Death Star
Round 6 - Hall of Judgement
Round 7- Rancor Pen

But it's not really practical.


Oh I don't want to see any more maps removed either but the simularities between the rancor pit and christosphos are a lot and I love to play on rancor pit as well so i don't want to see it go. Open gambit is no fun and does not leave any real option but to move from side to side seeing if you can get a better shot off of bait your opponet into something.

And I cannot wait to see the new map pak form what i read from dean. He already edited out of his post i guess due to revealing to much but cannot wait to see it

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 Post subject: Re: OK The Floor Rules are UP
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:38 pm 
Dark Lord of the Sith
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TimmerB123 wrote:
The worst legal map right now is the hardboard

I HATE that map!

It is unbalanced, and it has been shown again and again how it can be exploited.

And I also hate that it is the ONLY odd sized map. To add to that problem, it has a GIANT sized gambit area.


It needs to go before any other map. Dean - it really needs to be on your list to reconsider.

No Taris needs to go before the hardboard. On the hardboard you can move forward with out getting shot not on Taris. Yodabuck rex should be 50/50 vs on Taris. Vs a slow player or turtle player it cant win.


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 Post subject: Re: OK The Floor Rules are UP
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:55 pm 
Mandalore
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Engineer wrote:
Grand Moff Boris wrote:
What would be nice for the Championship is if we could do what the DDM Championship used to do at GenCon, and that is rotate the map that can be played on each round.

For example:

Round 1 - Death Star
Round 2 - Muunilist Command Center
Round 3 - Taris
Round 4 - Chancellor's Throne Room
Round 5 - Death Star
Round 6 - Hall of Judgement
Round 7- Rancor Pen

But it's not really practical.

I think this is a great idea. I agree, it won't work well in practice (too bad).


It be cool to do something like that on Vassal.

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 Post subject: Re: OK The Floor Rules are UP
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:02 pm 
Droid Army Commander
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Grand Moff Boris wrote:
For example:

Round 1 - Death Star
Round 2 - Muunilist Command Center
Round 3 - Taris
Round 4 - Chancellor's Throne Room
Round 5 - Death Star
Round 6 - Hall of Judgement
Round 7- Rancor Pen

But it's not really practical.


I applaud and fully support/endorse this decision - the best suggestion ever made IMO.


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 Post subject: Re: OK The Floor Rules are UP
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:36 pm 
Hall of Fame Member
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I tend to agree with Boris here. I'd personally prefer a map list that balances melee and ranged more, but the number of maps becomes pretty limited there and I don't think that has anywhere close to support by a majority of DCI players. And once you allow one shooter POWNAGE! map it really doesn't matter so much if you allow 10--melee is gone either way. With the map list I'm very much in favor of majority rule, barring intentional subversion of the process--if players want a map, I'm fine letting them have it. Players voted against Christo by a small margin. Maybe a revote would change that. Dunno.

I'm pretty sure map rotation was discussed last year. It's just not practical to have 64 copies of each map on hand during the Swiss. However, it's pretty reasonable to have a fixed map or map rotation for the final 8. And that does a lot to shape the Gencon metagame because anyone who wants to win it all rather than just make top 8 needs to consider it and even consider just bringing one of those maps as their own since they can then build to it for the entire tourney.

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 Post subject: Re: OK The Floor Rules are UP
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:40 pm 
One of the Sith on Malgus' Shuttle
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I've gotta agree with everyone, the Map Rotation idea sounds pretty fun! Makes you think more outside the box...


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 Post subject: Re: OK The Floor Rules are UP
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:40 pm 
Grand Admiral
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I really like the new DCI update. Great job, Dean. :D

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 Post subject: Re: OK The Floor Rules are UP
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:53 pm 
Master of the Order
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NickName wrote:
I tend to agree with Boris here. I'd personally prefer a map list that balances melee and ranged more, but the number of maps becomes pretty limited there and I don't think that has anywhere close to support by a majority of DCI players. And once you allow one shooter POWNAGE! map it really doesn't matter so much if you allow 10--melee is gone either way. With the map list I'm very much in favor of majority rule, barring intentional subversion of the process--if players want a map, I'm fine letting them have it. Players voted against Christo by a small margin. Maybe a revote would change that. Dunno.

I'm pretty sure map rotation was discussed last year. It's just not practical to have 64 copies of each map on hand during the Swiss. However, it's pretty reasonable to have a fixed map or map rotation for the final 8. And that does a lot to shape the Gencon metagame because anyone who wants to win it all rather than just make top 8 needs to consider it and even consider just bringing one of those maps as their own since they can then build to it for the entire tourney.


It was discussed. I really pushed for it. But it didn't happen for the reasons you said. Not everyone has all the maps, and we didn't have the level of interaction with WotC that we do know to try to get them to provide the maps to cover everyone who came to the tournament (I was projecting 60-65 with the knowledge that the Championship was being held elsewhere).

Funny side note - I did try to get Jim to hold off on handing out the Taris maps he got at GenCon until Sunday morning at the start of the finals. I thought it would be cool if the players at the top 8 had the surprise of getting to play on the maps in the final rounds. Jim (correctly) disagreed because there was no way to know if the map was good for DCI or not.

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 Post subject: Re: OK The Floor Rules are UP
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:17 am 
Droid Army Commander
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If you couldn't do it for the first rounds, I certainly think it would be appropriate for the Final 8.


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