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 Post subject: Re: The world after GOWK gets banned...
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:33 pm 
Imperial Dignitaries
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Take it for what it's worth but I find it very interesting that Boris thinks that Boba BH will likely be banned down the line. I completely disagree, but that isn’t the point.

Not promising at all......he's been around for a lengthy portion of the game (back to Boba BH)and it's tough to have a competitive game when competitive pieces get banned. He's not broken; I thought there was a consensus on that the first time around.

I don’t like what GOWK has done for the game so far, but I’d like it even less if it tempts people to just dispose of the other competitive figures that they don’t like just by being loud about it.

What will things look like if GOWK is banned? Well frankly not much will have changed at all since CW came out. There will be new NR squads and that's about the only difference. :idea:

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 Post subject: Re: The world after GOWK gets banned...
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:46 pm 
Sith Infiltrator
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I think he means banned for Dynamic Duo.

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 Post subject: Re: The world after GOWK gets banned...
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:23 pm 
Imperial Dignitaries
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Well that makes a bit more sense :) but it doesn't read that way. It looks like 3X Bothans and Boba BH as the center piece of the squad. I was thinking regular DCI and it would be a travesty if calls for that to happen came in any of the point formats.

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 Post subject: Re: The world after GOWK gets banned...
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:41 pm 
Unnamed Stormtrooper
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Grand Moff Boris wrote:
Fool wrote:
A look into the future: Star Wars Miniatures: 2012.....

...The future is bleak. Gowk got banned as we all thought he should, only to the horrification of a Charging Assault, Twin, GMA, Cloaked, Triple Attacking Maul in JA. We couldn't' ban him quick enough and Parasimar Dorgon, a 4 year old from Alaska won Gencon - his first time ever playing SWM. It was horrifying.

Ban outcries ran rampant. We removed the entire Galaxy at War Set. Boba BH was banned. The Ugnaught and Mouse Droid were too low for points and crutches for every player. They were banned. In an effort to simplify things, we actually decided to ban everything from 2011 from competitive play.

Throne Room, all the Map Packs, Banned.
Mara Jade, Jedi - Banned
Twin Attack. Banned.
Override. Banned.

Feeling the faction had become too powerful, we banned the New Republic faction and Mandalorians alltogether. I mean holy both are crazy, sick.

Amazingly, through all of this, Jar Jar Binks was not banned.

Then to start 2012, we banned everything. And a Mass Exodus of the game ensued.

The smoke cleared sometime in late 2012 when a new set came out of the ashes of the game - a set called "Rebel Storm".

Finally, things were "back to normal". Melee Attack reigned supreme and we were all overjoyed (after banning Han Solo, R2-D2 and Boba Fett).

The Winning squad of:

Chewbacca
Luke Skywalker, Rebel
Lando Calrissian
4 x Bespin Guard
Obi-Wan Kenobi
Rebel Trooper x 3
Elite Rebel Trooper x 2
C-3P0

Was followed by cheers and celebrations. A new dawn of Star Wars miniatures is coming. I hear the new Clone Strike set coming out next year is supposed to be the bomb! I can only hope!!!


...says the guy who by his own admission doesn't play DCI and rarely if ever fields or faces off against GOWK. Is this really the type of post a "Forum Guide" and ambassador for WotC should be making?

I mean, it's one thing to disagree but this is over the top.



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 Post subject: Re: The world after GOWK gets banned...
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:49 pm 
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
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Grand Moff Boris wrote:
...says the guy who by his own admission doesn't play DCI and rarely if ever fields or faces off against GOWK. Is this really the type of post a "Forum Guide" and ambassador for WotC should be making?

I mean, it's one thing to disagree but this is over the top.


Oh give me a break! Coming from you, that is 100% hypocritical. Satire and Sarcasm are over-the-top? Good God, man, do you not remember doing the exact same thing to several people (myself included) over very minor stuff (that later turned out to be correct)?

/rant


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 Post subject: Re: The world after GOWK gets banned...
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:38 pm 
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DarkLordVerjal wrote:
...Rex who is an amazing-but fragile- pieces now loses his fragilitiy and becomes one of the top 2-3 shooters in the game.


Just for clarification: GOWK does nothing to boost Rex, seeing as how Rex is not a follower :D

After GOWK:

The meta is wide open and we won't see the "anti-GOWK vs. anti-GOWK" that seemed to show up at the Regionals. It will really be about the best squad design and the best player skill. Some things will rise to the top as they always do (and NR gets the biggest boost in JA in my opinion - but 6 pieces still need to be spoiled :)). There will be calls for a ban on BFBH (again), but BFBH does not present nearly the problems that GOWK does. We'll see a lot of great squads using pieces from JA and later on GaW while older pieces are brought back into competitive play even more than they already are. Melee and non-melee will be at the best balance they have ever been at.


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 Post subject: Re: The world after GOWK gets banned...
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:52 pm 
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who said he was getting banned what are you guys talking about? GOWK will never get banned this is nonsense. I am done with DCI play if this ever happens. Whats next uggies?



:D


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 Post subject: Re: The world after GOWK gets banned...
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:54 pm 
Master of the Order
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S1AL wrote:
Grand Moff Boris wrote:
...says the guy who by his own admission doesn't play DCI and rarely if ever fields or faces off against GOWK. Is this really the type of post a "Forum Guide" and ambassador for WotC should be making?

I mean, it's one thing to disagree but this is over the top.


Oh give me a break! Coming from you, that is 100% hypocritical. Satire and Sarcasm are over-the-top? Good God, man, do you not remember doing the exact same thing to several people (myself included) over very minor stuff (that later turned out to be correct)?

/rant


I have no idea what you are referring to. I most certainly never posted anything at this level, nor am I now or ever been in any sort of "official" capacity with the game.

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 Post subject: Re: The world after GOWK gets banned...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:34 am 
Sith Infiltrator
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headache62 wrote:
DarkLordVerjal wrote:
...Rex who is an amazing-but fragile- pieces now loses his fragilitiy and becomes one of the top 2-3 shooters in the game.


Just for clarification: GOWK does nothing to boost Rex, seeing as how Rex is not a follower :D


Oh yeah thanks. I make stupid mistakes as well. :D

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 Post subject: Re: The world after GOWK gets banned...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:09 am 
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jonnyb815 wrote:
who said he was getting banned what are you guys talking about? GOWK will never get banned this is nonsense. I am done with DCI play if this ever happens. Whats next uggies?
:D



ROTFL!!!!

Oh and Fool, your post was classic comic genius!! Genius I tell you!

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 Post subject: Re: The world after GOWK gets banned...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:18 am 
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I don't get why people are coming out of the woodwork all of a sudden claiming that the BFBH + Bothan Noble builds are going to be suddenly competitive, or that they're competitive right now. We saw a couple of those at GenCon last year, and they didn't really do THAT well. TINT's was the only one that really excelled, and I submit to you that it had a lot more to do with player skill than the Boba/Bothan combo. There's no way the Boba + 3 Bothans is ever going to top-tier. That's just ridiculous, and entirely too easy to beat.

Yes, Boba is a strong piece. Yes, Dodonna, San, Rieekan, Thrawn...all strong pieces....but none of those pieces serve to over-restrict the meta like GOWK has. Each one of those pieces also have good counters in existence for them. Boba has melee pieces, or figures that can kill him in 1 activation due to a lost init (Mara Jedi, Lord Vader, etc.). Tempo Control squads now have to worry about Yobuck or Lancer decimating their fodder. Rieekan squads have to deal with Melee pieces, and smart play can still get around the evade issue without much trouble. Thrawn has the NTMTO pieces or MTB to deal with him. Not that direct counters are always the best option, but in each of these cases, those are decent pieces, with direct counters that are at least good enough to cause frustration and keep things from being too unbalanced. But even without the counters, it's not like they ran rampant. Heck, the only counter for Thrawn at 2007 GenCon was Han Rogue's NTMTO. But I don't remember seeing any Han Rogue squads at GenCon, and there were only a couple Thrawn squads. So it wasn't the 'counter' that kept Thrawn in check at that point, it was the other myriad of options in the meta.

The trouble with GOWK is that even the piece that is supposed to be a counter to him isn't strong enough to actually keep GOWK in check, and they other meta squads like Force Push or Mith'rawn/LV aren't strong enough to do that job either.

So there's a marked difference in the effect that these pieces have on the meta. Yes, Boba BH, Dodonna, Rieekan, etc. all have an impact on the meta. But if it wasn't those pieces, it would be something else. Something is ALWAYS going to have an impact on the meta. But it's a question of HOW MUCH impact. IMO, none of those other pieces are even remotely close to the impact that GOWK has had.

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 Post subject: Re: The world after GOWK gets banned...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:58 am 
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Very good point lobo. Hopefully a simple errata change to GOWK will happen instead of a ban. Just making him a higher costed figure would fine with me.

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 Post subject: Re: The world after GOWK gets banned...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:20 am 
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Grand Moff Boris wrote:
I have no idea what you are referring to. I most certainly never posted anything at this level, nor am I now or ever been in any sort of "official" capacity with the game.


I would submit that your position as a Gencon judge 3 years running including head judge at the Masters last year and the fact that you've parlayed that experience (to some extent) into a direct line of communication with the very top people at WotC should put you in a position of higher responsibility than a simple forum guide with no actual authority.

And I would further agree that you've posted stuff 10x worse than Fool's obvious joke (some of which you admittedly intended as humor but was not nearly as obvious.)

But telling you this is so pointless I'm wondering right now why I don't just delete what I typed above and move on. :D I've come to accept that you'll likely never understand how your posting style reads to those who don't have the ability to reassess things based on having met you in person and even if you do (or did) at some point you won't change it. My first impression is often "oh, what a total jerk" followed by "oh wait, in RL Dennis = Boris and he just can't possibly mean it like it reads."

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 Post subject: Re: The world after GOWK gets banned...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:37 am 
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NickName wrote:
Grand Moff Boris wrote:
I have no idea what you are referring to. I most certainly never posted anything at this level, nor am I now or ever been in any sort of "official" capacity with the game.


I would submit that your position as a Gencon judge 3 years running including head judge at the Masters last year and the fact that you've parlayed that experience (to some extent) into a direct line of communication with the very top people at WotC should put you in a position of higher responsibility than a simple forum guide with no actual authority.

And I would further agree that you've posted stuff 10x worse than Fool's obvious joke (some of which you admittedly intended as humor but was not nearly as obvious.)

But telling you this is so pointless I'm wondering right now why I don't just delete what I typed above and move on. :D I've come to accept that you'll likely never understand how your posting style reads to those who don't have the ability to reassess things based on having met you in person and even if you do (or did) at some point you won't change it. My first impression is often "oh, what a total jerk" followed by "oh wait, in RL Dennis = Boris and he just can't possibly mean it like it reads."


Oh snap! I like NickName over here on gamers. Let loose with your bad self. Undo the ponytail and go wild! :P

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 Post subject: Re: The world after GOWK gets banned...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:21 am 
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eh. It's the same discussion Boris and I have had a gazillion times about his posting style on WotC.

(Funny, my girlfriend says the opposite about the ponytail: "Tie up your hair, Jesus." And "Bruce Willis time?" which is the forthcoming haircut where it all goes. :P )

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 Post subject: Re: The world after GOWK gets banned...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:41 am 
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jhc36 wrote:
Very good point lobo. Hopefully a simple errata change to GOWK will happen instead of a ban. Just making him a higher costed figure would fine with me.

Yes, make him a higher cost. Than that is even less fodder points you can gather. Very astute. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: The world after GOWK gets banned...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:13 pm 
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NickName wrote:
Grand Moff Boris wrote:
I have no idea what you are referring to. I most certainly never posted anything at this level, nor am I now or ever been in any sort of "official" capacity with the game.


I would submit that your position as a Gencon judge 3 years running including head judge at the Masters last year and the fact that you've parlayed that experience (to some extent) into a direct line of communication with the very top people at WotC should put you in a position of higher responsibility than a simple forum guide with no actual authority.


I have to be careful in my wording here because history has proven there are people anticipating the opportunity to misconstrue something I say, or that I something I say is actually worded in a way that is confusing. So let me just say that I can see how you might think that about my experience with the game, and what it has led to. I disagree with the assertion that I'm in a position of authority of any sort as the best I can claim is being a sounding board for various ideas with no real say-so about the outcome of any particular issue.

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And I would further agree that you've posted stuff 10x worse than Fool's obvious joke (some of which you admittedly intended as humor but was not nearly as obvious.)


Define worse. I probably overreacted somewhat to Fool's post, but I still don't think it was so much meant as humor as it was a criticism of certain individuals. This is probably based moreso on previous discussions and some other things going on outside the view of the public eye, but nevertheless.

Quote:
But telling you this is so pointless I'm wondering right now why I don't just delete what I typed above and move on. :D I've come to accept that you'll likely never understand how your posting style reads to those who don't have the ability to reassess things based on having met you in person and even if you do (or did) at some point you won't change it. My first impression is often "oh, what a total jerk" followed by "oh wait, in RL Dennis = Boris and he just can't possibly mean it like it reads."


You're right about one thing. I can't change my posting style. Not because I don't want to or because I have some sort of perverse pleasure in offending people, but because I can't (as I recently discovered) be sure what actually offends. Even in disagreements between us about something, you have commented something I said offended you, and I actually went back and edited something entirely different - not ever realizing it was a different comment that got your attention.

I hate that we are suddenly making this about me, btw. It really should not be.

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 Post subject: Re: The world after GOWK gets banned...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:22 pm 
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Off-Topic

Grand Moff Boris wrote:
I hate that we are suddenly making this about me, btw. It really should not be.


I am pretty sure this is the EXACT moment were it turned to be about you.

Grand Moff Boris wrote:
Is this really the type of post a "Forum Guide" and ambassador for WotC should be making?


Sometimes the best post is no post at all. :P :D

On-Topic

Anyone think we will actually get the DCI update posted by July 1st? Who's a betting man around here?

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 Post subject: Re: The world after GOWK gets banned...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:31 pm 
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Boba52 wrote:
Anyone think we will actually get the DCI update posted by July 1st? Who's a betting man around here?


Well, if I remember correctly, they had the updated posted on July 1st, if not a day or two early last year.

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 Post subject: Re: The world after GOWK gets banned...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:48 pm 
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I'll take that bet...that it comes out the week of July 1st.

Loser sends the other one a JA booster? :)


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