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 Post subject: Re: Wisconsin State Championship - Racine, WI Tourney Report!!!!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:05 pm 
Master of the Order
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LOL @ Joelker41 'QFT"

How about "QFM" (Quoted for Misstatments)

shinja wrote:
@Boris
It costs me a plane ticket to fly to Gencon, just like it would cost you a plane ticket to fly to PAX.


Okay, well you are personalizing it, and ignoring some facts that are inconvenient to your argument. First of all, GenCon was not always in Indianapolis. In fact, it was in Milauwakee, WI, for a very, very long time. And it had at least the size crowd that it has today. In fact, it has grown.

As for the plane ticket issue, what is better in terms of SWM? 20-25 people who have to fly to GenCon because its too far to drive, or 125 people who have to fly to Seattle? I'm sorry if this offends you, but if our roles were reversed and I lived out there and you lived where I live, I would say the most prestigious events should be at GenCon. It's where WotC holds all of the major events for its other games, and its where the biggest gathering of players from across the country can easily reach. The needs of the many and so forth. Does it suck if you're not in that driving distance? Well sure it does. But life isn't perfect.

That said, I have long advocated that other conventions be allowed and be supported in the opportunity to host SWM events, and I think WotC has embraced that by bringing Jim onto the team in a capacity that allows for official organization. Even PAX is going to benefit from that endeavor. :)

Quote:
I realize there is a bigger community in that part of the country. But what came first: SWM at Gencon, or most of the dedicated SWM community living within a day's drive of Gencon?


Well the answer is SWM at GenCon came before the dedicated community living within a day's drive. SWM debuted at GenCon 04.

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And regardless of the answer, how much have the two factors influenced each other?


I'm not really sure what your point is, but I'm inferring it has something to do with the idea that you think that because major SWM events started at GenCon that people flocked there under that expectation. Perhaps, but you are forgetting what I frequently point out: every other WotC-sponsored competitive game has its national championship at GenCon. So it's not just SWM trying to get some sort of special treatment. It's the basket in which the company has always put its eggs. But a lot of this is from an old argument of which the merits have already been proven, so I don't see the point in rehashing it any further.

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I think if WotC keeps holding major tournaments in other areas, it will encourage the player base to grow in other areas. Seattle-area SWM exploded right after PAX. Maybe it was just a coincidence, but maybe not.


I agree, and I can't see anywhere from any posts I or anyone else made that said major tournaments should ONLY occur at GenCon. The Championship should be held at the same location as all of WotC's other games. If someday they move everything they sponsor to DragonCon or Origins or even PAX, then that's fine. Isolating one game in terms of the biggest tournament of the year from the rest of the roster simply proved to be a mistake, and one that I don't think they will make again.

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 Post subject: Re: Wisconsin State Championship - Racine, WI Tourney Report!!!!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:26 pm 
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All I have to say is awesome report. Bill glad it went well in the cheese state. I hope ours goes just as well sunday

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 Post subject: Re: Wisconsin State Championship - Racine, WI Tourney Report!!!!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:11 am 
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Boris, I apologize. I wasn't trying to argue that that championship should be moved or anything like that. I really don't want to dig up any old arguments. I was simply responding to your post saying that it was too expensive for you to fly to PAX. I am flying to Gencon, even though it is expensive.

I anticipated your response to that would be something like "As for the plane ticket issue, what is better in terms of SWM? 20-25 people who have to fly to GenCon because its too far to drive, or 125 people who have to fly to Seattle?" Which is why I added the part about how the main SWM community and SWM support at Gencon seem to have supported each other. Not a call for change, or even a complaint. Just an observation.


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 Post subject: Re: Wisconsin State Championship - Racine, WI Tourney Report!!!!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:36 am 
Master of the Order
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shinja wrote:
Boris, I apologize. I wasn't trying to argue that that championship should be moved or anything like that. I really don't want to dig up any old arguments. I was simply responding to your post saying that it was too expensive for you to fly to PAX. I am flying to Gencon, even though it is expensive.


Please reread my post. I didn't actually say that it was too expensive to fly to Seattle. What I said was that a person who doesn't live on the west coast wants to attend PAX, that person will find arranging to attend the event very difficult. A plane ticket is a requirement for sure. Lodging is apparently super-expensive by all accounts.

Quote:
I anticipated your response to that would be something like "As for the plane ticket issue, what is better in terms of SWM? 20-25 people who have to fly to GenCon because its too far to drive, or 125 people who have to fly to Seattle?" Which is why I added the part about how the main SWM community and SWM support at Gencon seem to have supported each other. Not a call for change, or even a complaint. Just an observation.


I think you are looking at this from the narrow perspective of SWM. GenCon is in the midwest for a reason, and moved to Indy from Milwaukee for a reason. It's centrally located for the largest pool of tabletop gamers, and is the site of WotC's biggest events of the year for ALL their games, not just SWM. Last year they had championships for the games in all the following categories:

Magic
DDM
Dreamblade
Heroscape
Axis and Allies

I'm sure there were others, but those five games for sure. Now, if WotC suddenly decided to move their entire schedule of games to another convention, that would be fine. As long as there was ample notice about what they were doing, and I mean more than 30 days. More than 60 days, even.

I think the only reason SWM is so tied to GenCon in terms of community participation is tradition. It's the way it's always been. But if WotC announced in November that they were going to move their top-level convention support to another location in 2010, I'm confident that the same number of people would make every effort to attend. It might not be all the same people, but it would be the same number - with ample time to prepare, let me stress that part. By the time it was learned the Championship would be at PAX instead of GenCon last year, most people had already made their August travel plans, and the good hotel rooms at PAX were booked by the regulars.

But we have drifted off-topic. I hope a mod doesn't come in here and screen shot my post before deleting it, and then asks Steve or Dean what to do about it. :P

Oh wait, I'm a moderator here - I guess I can go off-topic and disrupt the thread without penalty. Whew, that was close.

You might be in trouble though Shinja. :P :P

Anyway, seriously, looking forward to meeting you at GenCon this year. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Wisconsin State Championship - Racine, WI Tourney Report!!!!
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:40 pm 
Unnamed Wookiee
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Does anyone know what map he used with the Xizor squad? Sorry if I just missed it. Thanks.


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