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 Post subject: Wisconsin State Championship - Racine, WI Tourney Report!!!!
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 10:54 pm 
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We had a great tournament with 26 attendees - and you know what we pulled off? All 26 players played the entire tournament, all 5 rounds of swiss. We did not to a final cut, given the time issue, since several players did travel a couple of hours to play. We had 2 of the Michigan boys, 4 from Illinois, and the rest from around Wisconsin! We gave away a free Gencon Badge and Championship entrance to first, a couple of boosters to 2-3 and then every player got a booster, and 2 Rares/VRs. Last place took home a Clone Wars Starter, a package of Engineer's homemade game markers, a Palps' on Throne, and a bunch of commons and uncommons given to him by some of the other players. Talk about some sweet prizes. Jonny, Matt and I donated the rares/VRs, and the store sold us boosters at cost. That's how you run your own big event and make it awesome for everyone. We even had the local newspaper guy, and a photographer show up to interview us about the event!

Now the squads in reverse order of finish:

26. Matt B - Bane, Sith Maurader, Elite Sith Trooper, filler

25. Clint - Qui-Gon JM, Mace Windu JM, General Ayla Secura

24. Jeff - Hantaun, Crix, Rebel Leader and Commandos

23. BJ - Mando Scout X4, Captain, Gunslinger, filler

22. Brad - Mando NUs mixed

21. Henry - General Kenobi CS, Clone Commanders and Clones

20. Nathan - GGDAC, Lancer, 2 IGs

19. Steve - Vader IC, Stormies, Piett

18. Breman - Mara, Han, Dodonna, BBSV

17. Matt V - Potty Palps, Echani X3, Mithrawn

16. Terry - Potty Palps, Mithrawn, Arica, Vader U

15. Fred - Kyle BM, Kype, Wede, Dash

14. Alex - GGDAC - IGs X4, San, BDO

13. Kellie (yes we had a girl, and she did quite well) - Luke RC, Crix, Strike Leader, Rieekan, Commandos

12. Eric P - Luke HPU, Jolee, Jarael, Leia CC, Rieekan, IC, Juno

11. Pat C - Warmaster, Shaper, Jedi Hunter X2, AAO

10. Gordan - Luke SC, Crix, Rieekan, Commandos

9. Tim A - Han GH, Mara, Kyle Katarn UH, Dodonna

8. David - VAU, Potty Palps, Mithrawn

7. Eric (Engineer) - VAR, Luke HPU, Han Smuggler, Mouse, Ugo, Dodonna, Rieekan, Juno, R2-EA

6. Philip C - GOWK, Arc Trooper Sniper, Dash, R2-AM, ugo, Captain Rex, Mouse X2

5. Tim - Obi U, Luke HPU, Han Smuggler, T3, Rieekan, Juno, Mouse X2, Ugo X2

4. Ben G - Darth Malak, Lobot, Dash, Jarael, Holo Sid, Ugo X2, mouse X2

3. Matt P (MtMagus) - GOWK, JWM, Lobot, Dash, R2, Caamasi

2. Jon B (JonnyB) - GOWK, Lobot, R2, Rex, JWM

1. Deri (Fingersandteeth) - Xizor, Lobot, TBSV X2, Czerka, Ozzel, Mas, Ugo, IG Tarkin

Some interesting notes. There were three GOWK squads, but as you can probably tell, most people built their squads to deal with him. The three GOWK squads ended the day at 12-3. All three of them went 4-1. Jonny played both of the other GOWKs, which accounts for 2 of the 3 GOWK losses. The lone squad to beat GOWK, other than GOWK, was Ben's Malak squad which beat Matt in the fourth round. Matt beat Jonny in round 3, and Jonny beat Phil in round 2. Deri then beat Ben in the final round with his "Terrible Vigos".

In Ben and Matt's game, I was able to watch most of it, and Matt fell for a classic Jarael move 10 and triple where he forgot she could do that. This cost him R2, and eventually the game in the long run. GOWK went down to 3 Lightnings, and a final failed SSM shot from the TBSV that he brought in with Lobot. He quite simply played this one poorly and was caught off guard by what Ben could do (credit to Ben for having practiced this match up and playing it well).

In the finals however, it was a different story for Ben. He played it quite close at the end, and had a chance to win, but that was partly due to 5 straight misses from one of Deri's TBSVs on a 10 hp Malak, allowing him to survive to pull off a key lightning.

To Deri's squad. On the way back, we talked about how he planned on beating GOWK, and basically, he would use Lobot to bring in a BG (I think he did that every game), and then hope for luck. With opp, twin, double, and Xizor, the two shoot at +17 for 40 a pop 4 times. He needs three to land to kill GOWK. Of course the problem, which he recognized, was that he basically gets one round to kill him, and then it's too late. This one is all about positioning, and Deri said he had a number of real tight games, which happens when your entire offense has a total of 80hps between them :) But as usual, he played quite well, protected himself well, and came home with his Gencon Badge and Championship entry paid!!!!!

I should also add this bit of ridiculousness that occured in Matt vs Jonny. In the first round, Jonny placed his Rex poorly, leading to Matt putting a cheap 40 on it. Jonny had no choice but to charge Rex and try to kill Dash in return in round 3, he did 60 back. Dash died, and Jonny's R2 and Rex died in return, leaving Jonny's GOWK based with GOWK and JWM from Matt, who then locked out Jonny's JWM. Matt through a few attacks, and a push, put Jonny's GOWK at 10hps by the end of round 3 or 4. Jonny then spent 4-5 more rounds Knightspeeding, taking AoOs from Matt's GOWK, and then towed doubles, attacking Matt's support. He made every SSM roll for like 5 rounds, something like 15 or so attacks. Eventually, he got MAtt's R2 and Lobot (Matt made some placement errors not expecting Jonny to take all the AoOs) and all of the sudden, Matt was down to the last round behind. Matt finally won init and pushed GOWK, but still needed a hit from his ugo and his gran on Jonny's Lobot for the win, which he got.

It was utterly sick. Matt should have won this game in 15-20 minutes, heck Jonny was ready to concede when he lost Rex and R2. Considering Matt's GOWK took maybe 20-30 damage, Jonny had no chance for 40 minutes to kill Matt's GOWK, and wisely didn't try. He simply kept running relying on Soresu. And had he won that last init, he likely would have won the game doing it....... So much for strategy. And what's worse, I did the math in my head. He used his FPs well, and his saves were pretty much close to the odds overall (missed most early, then made them all at the end). Matt had to use two Force pushes (which without R2 is hard to do) in order to finally win in the last round. If you like random games, then SSM is for you! If you like strategy, well, I guess you could say Jonny's crazy play was creative, and Matt didn't expect it exactly, but man, it sure made Matt's well played game almost a waste.

Also of note, I made a fairly long explanation on stalling/slow play, and how I would call it if I saw it, regardless of judging the person's intent, and you know what, never had it happen once. Judging a big event was great and I took quite a few questions, but no one had any major issues! All in all, a spectacular event, and I challenge any regional to match what we put on :). Anyways, everyone wants to do it again next year and so we probably will!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Wisconsin State Championship - Racine, WI Tourney Report!!!!
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 11:14 pm 
One of the Sith on Malgus' Shuttle
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Great report!

Huh, very surprised to see the winning squad. May have to try something similar to that squad sometime, it looks like fun.

And I'm surprised no one tried B&B Revisited (Lord Vader and mitthThrawn). I am glad to see my hypothesis is correct that people are going to plan to go against GOWK but in the end rarely see him. I find it ironic that GOWK went against GOWK several times, lol. Bet they didn't plan on that happening ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Wisconsin State Championship - Racine, WI Tourney Report!!!!
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 12:08 am 
Dark Lord of the Sith
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my wins were vs 5,6,9,11 and lost to matt(3rd) in the most crazy game i have ever played. i really wish i would of been able to see the whole field. first game was vs 5th place guy 4-1 obi ul han smugger luke hoth,second was vs 6th 4-1 gowk rex dash,third game was vs third place 4-1 same squad other than dash noble-rex i didnt want to play the same squad as matt and rex helped me out more in the first 3 games, fourth game was vs the 11th guy 3-2 i think with warmaster door control and my nobles played a big part in that game. i think i should of played some mice didnt think about it. my last gmae was vs 9th vs a mara han gh, old kyle squad 3-2. the guy i played in the last round was from my local lgs so i know how he plays. as you can see i didnt have easy early games. well back to my last game i was able to get his gen dod and uggie turn 4 i think which gave me the act lead and turned the tides. I was able to play on cloudy city my map for the first 4 game and last game was on death star. outside of my first game i knew how my opponent plays(have played them before) and that was big for me in the second game vs rex dash gowk. 2 weeks ago i played the same player and about the same squad and i lose with gowk rex sevx2 wookiee sc uggies. the thing i hate with gowk is you really dont need to think you just do i hate that or at thats how games have played gone for me with him and vs him.

matt game
well when matt shoot rex and did damage i was able to try and kill dash and failed and i cost me r2 and rex but it was a gamble i had to take at the time. then it was gowk and jwm vs my gowk and jwm and i lost that match. my gowk had 10 left and jwm had 60. i was able to take out matts jwm then i was based by his gowk and took a aoo to kill his jwm. now it was my gowk 10 hps and jwm vs his 90 maybe even full gowk. so now i had some force and 10 hps i was able to kill lobot r2 and all of use mice. but he had a uggie and gran come kill my lobot. if i won that init i would of been able to run away and since i was up maybe could of won. even then if matt would of got a 6 or below with is uggie i might of won. but losing that init was big. o well it was by far the craziest game i have ever played. i made some weird moves but had to gamble at that point since i really thought the game was over but wanted to have some fun. matt i really dont think thought i would take like 3-4 aoos trying to kill stuff with 10 hps. matt couldnt hit me either or save so i was able to go though his force not leting him push me. i know there was a time where he could push me though and didnt. so if a 10 hp gowk can kill a squad i say ban him.


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 Post subject: Re: Wisconsin State Championship - Racine, WI Tourney Report!!!!
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 6:14 am 
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We've tested Terrible Vigos extensively, but always with old Thrawn in there so that GOWK can't re-roll his Soresu's. Even with Old Thrawn we couldn't get it to work with such low hit points on the primary attackers. We used blocking figures and spread the field and everything, but, of course, R2 was never a legal target until it was too late. That was a gutsy move on Deri's part. Now folks, I wouldn't go running out thinking that Terrible Vigos is the bee's knees now just because Deri won with it. Deri is obviously one of the best players of the game and his play skill, not his squad, is what won the day. But, I also am not trying to diminish Deri's victory, just calling for caution in how people intrepret it. Good job Deri and congrats Bill for running such a successful event! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Wisconsin State Championship - Racine, WI Tourney Report!!!!
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 7:20 am 
Third Jedi from the Left
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HA, GO MALAK!!!! GJ Ben G, 4th place with Sith, FTW.

BTW, what were his reinforcments in the earlier games (If you know)?

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 Post subject: Re: Wisconsin State Championship - Racine, WI Tourney Report!!!!
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 7:52 am 
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That's so great to see someone won by skill and not just GOWK. Seems like a great turnout and just the sheer amount of prize support you threw at the people Bill is amazing. Great review, I am sure everyone had a blast! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Wisconsin State Championship - Racine, WI Tourney Report!!!!
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 8:11 am 
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Congratulations to the man who almost made me quit minis permanently! Great job, Deri! You, too, Jonny!
Most of all, great job, Bill! You organized that huge tourney.

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 Post subject: Re: Wisconsin State Championship - Racine, WI Tourney Report!!!!
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 8:19 am 
Droid Army Commander
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Freaking non-ban GoWK Deri FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Interesting to note that 5/8 top squads were not GoWk though.


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 Post subject: Re: Wisconsin State Championship - Racine, WI Tourney Report!!!!
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 8:36 am 
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Fool wrote:
Freaking non-ban GoWK Deri FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Interesting to note that 5/8 top squads were not GoWk though.



3 - 8 is GOWK that is almost 50% which is what we are saying that this one piece can be on top no matter what

2 - 8 were Luke HOth piloit

1 - 8 vere VAU

1 - 8 were Malak

1 - 8 were Xizor

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 Post subject: Re: Wisconsin State Championship - Racine, WI Tourney Report!!!!
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 8:45 am 
Droid Army Commander
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Actually 3/26 are GoWk now that I look at it closer...


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 Post subject: Re: Wisconsin State Championship - Racine, WI Tourney Report!!!!
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 9:14 am 
One of the Sith on Malgus' Shuttle
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I've decided to change my squad now, have a "fun" idea that may not be competitive but it's something I'm really comfortable with ^_^


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 Post subject: Re: Wisconsin State Championship - Racine, WI Tourney Report!!!!
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 9:15 am 
Droid Army Commander
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jedispyder wrote:
I've decided to change my squad now, have a "fun" idea that may not be competitive but it's something I'm really comfortable with ^_^


I think that's the idea man (IMO).

Have fun - otherwise what's the blaming point?


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 Post subject: Re: Wisconsin State Championship - Racine, WI Tourney Report!!!!
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 9:59 am 
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Kudos to Kellie, David and Eric from our group at Games Plus. We didn't get in much play testing, so happy to see they did well. Would have had two more from our group, but unfortunately I'm out of town for a funeral.

Also BIG props for the amount of swag you guys passed out. A very nice gesture.


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 Post subject: Re: Wisconsin State Championship - Racine, WI Tourney Report!!!!
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 10:06 am 
Dark Lord of the Sith
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dvader831 wrote:
Congratulations to the man who almost made me quit minis permanently! Great job, Deri! You, too, Jonny!
Most of all, great job, Bill! You organized that huge tourney.

well that isnt really true yes he judged the event and help out a lot. i was the one that really made the event happen. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Wisconsin State Championship - Racine, WI Tourney Report!!!!
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 10:52 am 
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Waves_blade wrote:
HA, GO MALAK!!!! GJ Ben G, 4th place with Sith, FTW.

BTW, what were his reinforcments in the earlier games (If you know)?


I'd be curious to see a match report for the Malak squad, especially in the GOWK matchups. Was the game between Ben and Matt decided more on mistakes by Matt, or does the Malak squad do OK against GOWK?

I'm curious because I brought up this point about Malak based squads being a possible contender a couple weeks back over on WotC, wondering I'm on to something there :)


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 Post subject: Re: Wisconsin State Championship - Racine, WI Tourney Report!!!!
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 10:56 am 
Unnamed Stormtrooper
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grr i wish i could have come but i had to work till three


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 Post subject: Re: Wisconsin State Championship - Racine, WI Tourney Report!!!!
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 12:35 pm 
Guardian of the Old Republic
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Wow...

Not only did GOWK not win but YoBuck didn't even show up, that's just downright strange.

Congrats to the Vigos good to see that build do well again, lots of offense there.

Best part is Sith taking 4th!


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 Post subject: Re: Wisconsin State Championship - Racine, WI Tourney Report!!!!
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 12:57 pm 
Name Calling Internet Bully
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Wedge772 wrote:
I'd be curious to see a match report for the Malak squad, especially in the GOWK matchups. Was the game between Ben and Matt decided more on mistakes by Matt, or does the Malak squad do OK against GOWK?


I would say it was both to a degree, but the biggest contributing factor was Matt's mistakes.

I even named it (as I have seen others do the same thing before).

Matt got "Jaraeled". He overextended Dash and R2 to kill an ugo, and then Jarael pounded R2 from 10 away with a shockstaff triple. Next round, she was able to stun Dash, which really, really hurt Matt. Matt also used Obi, JWM and Dash to try and kill Jarael, which of course let Ben's Dash, Malak and TBSV attack relatively freely for a couple of turns.

I talked to Matt after the tourney, and told him, just take the AoO from Jarael, she only does 10dmg :) He didn't think of that.

However, Ben also played it basically perfectly, and set Matt up for the trap by playing his map well, setting up perfectly, and spreading out to assault with everything at the point he wanted to at the same time. That's how you win at this game no doubt!

Had we done a top 4 or top 8 and the two of them played again, I think the game would have been much closer, given that Matt had learned his lesson. But a swiss only tourney, doesn't allow for many mistakes, and Matt made a couple in that game, which cost him.

As for the strength of Malak against GOWK, Lightning 2 is a good counter when combined with a nice Tie up piece in Jarael, and two tough hard hitters like the TBSV and Dash.

If I were to play his squad with GOWK, I would have run it differently. I would have stayed out of range, running a freebee into gambit early (played on Chancelor's). I would also have brought max activations most likely to try to out activate Ben. Especially since I would want fodder to help prevent lightning as much as possible.

Then the next issue is who to attack first. The major threat in the squad is in fact Dash. So you would tow either your Dash into base (if his Dash has activated) and try for the kill (need 4 rolls of 2), or you tow the JWM for an assault if you cant get your Dash in after his has activated. Even if you lose the JWM doing this, you should have a good chance of taking out his Dash in return without further damage. Then you can pick and choose the other targets. I would go for the TBSV probably next, but if you get a good chance to hit Malak and base him, it can be worth it. Once Dash is gone, his damage output drops a lot, and Malak has no defense against your JWM, GOWK and Dash. You should be able to eliminate him in a round or two, before he can kill Obi with lightning generally. But even if you lose Obi at that point, you can handle JArael and the Vigo with your other two.

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 Post subject: Re: Wisconsin State Championship - Racine, WI Tourney Report!!!!
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 12:58 pm 
Name Calling Internet Bully
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Fool wrote:
Freaking non-ban GoWK Deri FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Interesting to note that 5/8 top squads were not GoWk though.


Um, duh. There were only 3 GOWK's in the field at all. Would have been quite impressive to see 4 in the top 8, when there were only 3 players :)

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 Post subject: Re: Wisconsin State Championship - Racine, WI Tourney Report!!!!
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 1:03 pm 
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klecser wrote:
We've tested Terrible Vigos extensively, but always with old Thrawn in there so that GOWK can't re-roll his Soresu's. Even with Old Thrawn we couldn't get it to work with such low hit points on the primary attackers. We used blocking figures and spread the field and everything, but, of course, R2 was never a legal target until it was too late. That was a gutsy move on Deri's part. Now folks, I wouldn't go running out thinking that Terrible Vigos is the bee's knees now just because Deri won with it. Deri is obviously one of the best players of the game and his play skill, not his squad, is what won the day. But, I also am not trying to diminish Deri's victory, just calling for caution in how people intrepret it. Good job Deri and congrats Bill for running such a successful event! :D


Yeah, i was thinking about GA thrawn when i was making my last minute calculations to the 'terrible twileks', the issue with thrawn is hit percentage. Your basically looking at shooting with +13x v 26 defences.

Xizor is so much more powerful giving the Twileks +17 for 40. Thats 3 hits v 4 and needing 9s at best. I did some brief dice experiments pitting Xizor twileks v soresu mastery and you can expect to put 40 dmg on him in a no cover volley. On an unactivated GOWK the jolt factors in huge meaning that it really doesn't matter whether his is activated or not for the vigos as you double the number of saves.

Regardless of this fact, after seeing 'terrible twileks' in action its not a great counter and requires very careful play, positioning to protect your main guns. Saying that, the fact that they can pump out 160 dmg in a turn (how nuts is that?) your opponent must play equally carefully and with a gambit lead your oopponent becomes trapped deciding which figure to lose first.

Both my games against Ben and Eric (and Fred) were dramatically close and won on minimal points with 1 or 2 rolls that would have put the game on its head.

Ben squad and his ability to run it impressed me mainly because i've tried and failed to get Malak/rex/jareal/vigo to work. Ben has obvioulsy got it down pat. He killed both my vigos (i made a couple of boobs) and Xizor (fittingly) was able to hold the center while ozzel, tarkin and lobot rand for the rooms.

A final point about GOWK.
I've been an advocate for keeping him around because i have faith in the designers that they will turn the game around. I'm not quite so sure anymore. I was lucky to avoid GOWK and with the fragility of my squad i don't know if i could have pulled it off particularly against guys who know how to run him.
The top squads were either GOWK or counters of some description. The figure has amazing support

Its an unusual time for the game. you have a figure that has 50% chance of taking no dmg from any attack and that gets up to 95% if he has force. At the same time you have 18 point figures that can do 160 dmg at ridiculous attack values.
The hope is that banning GOWK will stabilize the game and i'm starting to agree but we need to be sure that it does achieve the desired effect.

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