logo

All times are UTC - 6 hours

Mark forums read


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 31 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Championship 2009: Dallas Regional Tournament Report
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 11:03 am 
Master of the Order
Master of the Order
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 2:46 pm
Posts: 7960
Location: West Chester, OH (near Cincinnati)
Yeah, let's look instead at the top 16 or so of 2008. That would've included squads like:
Han GH/Mara Jedi
DPR's Vong squad
Veers Hologram squad!

Seriously...some of that stuff that made the top 16 FLOORED me. You won't see anything remotely similar to that this year.

_________________
-Aaron
Mand'alor
"You either die a hero, or you live to see yourself become the villain."
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Championship 2009: Dallas Regional Tournament Report
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 11:19 am 
Death Star Designers
Death Star Designers

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:07 pm
Posts: 811
LoboStele wrote:
Yeah, let's look instead at the top 16 or so of 2008. That would've included squads like:
Han GH/Mara Jedi
DPR's Vong squad
Veers Hologram squad!

Seriously...some of that stuff that made the top 16 FLOORED me. You won't see anything remotely similar to that this year.

With the pairings that take place, i wouldnt bet on that. Quite, honestly, i am betting that most of the top 16 will be the same people that have been in it from year to year. Skill is just too much of the game. If they all run GOWK then yeah GOWK is going to dominate. I fully expect Gencon to look very similar to the Texas regional with the additions of Vong and NR. Only time will tell.

_________________
The Wookiee Master

Check us out over at Pojo.com

"It appears the Bothans have rooked us again."
-Obi wan


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Championship 2009: Dallas Regional Tournament Report
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 12:22 pm 
Name Calling Internet Bully
Name Calling Internet Bully
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 10:10 pm
Posts: 6172
Location: Gurnee, IL
Sithdragon13 wrote:
With the pairings that take place, i wouldnt bet on that. Quite, honestly, i am betting that most of the top 16 will be the same people that have been in it from year to year. Skill is just too much of the game. If they all run GOWK then yeah GOWK is going to dominate. I fully expect Gencon to look very similar to the Texas regional with the additions of Vong and NR. Only time will tell.


Then according to you, you should be arguing with anyone who states that want to see tournament results before deciding on a ban, because by your logic, tournament results will not answer the question.

Oh wait, didn't this start because you told us how to interpret those tournament results for not banning?......

I guess (and please don't take offense to the following), coming from someone who has had intimate knowledge of playing at Gencon in this tournament for 4 years (2009 is my 5th), its never been like this.

In 2005, I had 3 different 100pt squads built, ended up running my new Universe pieces because Vader JH was so much fun, but never thought I had to run X to compete.

In 2006, no one knew of my squad, outside of those who I had talked to. I had very little worry of people being prepared for it. In fact, other than Matt running Exar, I don't remember playing any squad that was built with B&B in mind (even Deri's towed Boba wasn't a great counter, simply a case where he outplayed me in the friday tournament finals).

In 2007, Deri, Matt and Tim can attest to this. I decided on which squad to run at about 11-12 PM friday night at the bar. I had 5-6 squads in mind, narrowed that down to 3 prior to friday, and ended up picking my favorite friday night. I did not choose it because of its superior strength. I even remember saying to them, "I feel like I could do just as well with X, Y, Z" and they all pretty much agreed.

In 2008, I actually thought pre-Gencon, that the power of Speedy Cannon was less pronounced than the Han Cannon I ran in the previous year. I remember telling Dean, I decided to run it, because I figured it was the last tournament I could probably get away with running Han Scoundrel in, and I enjoy the squad. Dean and Matt can attest, it was not chosen because of superior strength. In fact, up until the Masters, Matt had gone 1-3, 2-2, 1-3, and 2-2 with Speedy Cannon in 4 different tournaments in preparation. I guess the squad suddenly got better that day. I also felt I could have run San Hill (shooters or DT), Loda, NR, a couple of MTB builds, Dodonna squads, or Mandos and competed quite well. I did not ever think that Speedy Cannon had an 80-20% odds of winning a given match up against any of the other top level squad designs.

The good players will play GOWK. You can be as dismissive about that as a determining factor as you want, but you can't have it both ways.

I agree with you that the top 16 will have mostly familiar faces. All that says is that the top players are more skilled than those behind them, well duh. They also won't take the chance of not running GOWK in the one big tournament of the year when it boils right down to it, and will play GOWK.

_________________
Image

http://www.bloomilk.com/Squads/Search.aspx?UserID=29


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Championship 2009: Dallas Regional Tournament Report
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 12:28 pm 
Death Star Designers
Death Star Designers

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:07 pm
Posts: 811
Quote:
Then according to you, you should be arguing with anyone who states that want to see tournament results before deciding on a ban, because by your logic, tournament results will not answer the question.
What are you talking about?! I have said repeatedly that i am waiting for further results. If future regionals start placing GOWK 1,2,3 or 1,2,4 or whatever then that points to it being an issue. All i said is that i bet it ends up looking like the texas regional because of people trying to out guess the guesser. I guess you missed the whole "time will tell" part of my post.

Quote:
They also won't take the chance of not running GOWK in the one big tournament of the year when it boils right down to it, and will play GOWK.
This may or may not happen, unless you are building everyone's squads for them now, but if the best players are running GOWK that doesnt prove much as they are the top players. If the top players are all running other things and get shut out then that would prove a lot.

_________________
The Wookiee Master

Check us out over at Pojo.com

"It appears the Bothans have rooked us again."
-Obi wan


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Championship 2009: Dallas Regional Tournament Report
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 12:37 pm 
The One True Sith Lord
The One True Sith Lord
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:12 pm
Posts: 2026
Location: Nixa,Missouri
I really think that the Gowk results were right in line with what we thought.

First off Gowk won it. Gowk also came in the top 4 so 50% of the top 4 were Gowk.... numbers we are talking about right there.

Second we also previously had stated that all levels of skill will use Gowk because he is hard to kill. we see that with the 12th place Gowk that as far as anyone could tell had no door control.

So almost 25% of all squad at the regional were Gowk. That is high I dont care how you cut it.

How many squads were Gowk hate or Anti Gowk......

So Gowk has effected the Meta and right now is one for one winning a Regional.

I dont get the argument that if Gowk had taken places 1-3 it is obvious he is a problem. Gowk took 2 of the top four spots.

I think that speaks volumes.

The other 2 squads were not Vong.... they were not Han Cannon.... Not B&B..... Not Rebel Force Push.


Gowk has already made his presence felt and I just believe people are wanting higher number to see a trend.

_________________
ImageImage
"What is your bidding, My Master?"

Collection: 934/934

SWM DCI Content Manager


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Championship 2009: Dallas Regional Tournament Report
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 12:40 pm 
Name Calling Internet Bully
Name Calling Internet Bully
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 10:10 pm
Posts: 6172
Location: Gurnee, IL
Sithdragon13 wrote:
This may or may not happen, unless you are building everyone's squads for them now, but if the best players are running GOWK that doesnt prove much as they are the top players.
Wanna bet how many of us are going to go that route when it comes to final squad decisions for the Champ just to prove to you (and others) there is a problem?

Sithdragon13 wrote:
If the top players are all running other things and get shut out then that would prove a lot.
But just looking at the results from this one, you have already proven that you are not in any way interpreting it in this way.

Frank Baker is very good, he ran a counter squad, and finished 8th with it. There it is in black and white. I would argue he is the second best player at that tournament. #1 chose GOWK, won the thing. #2 chose other, didn't get close. Guys who aren't quite as good as Frank, chose GOWK, finished in 4th and 6th.

_________________
Image

http://www.bloomilk.com/Squads/Search.aspx?UserID=29


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Championship 2009: Dallas Regional Tournament Report
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 12:55 pm 
Death Star Designers
Death Star Designers

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:07 pm
Posts: 811
Yeah not so black and white as you conveniently forget what you ahve said a 1000 times before. You cannot run "hate" and expect to win. Frank may have been the second best player there, but i look at his squad and i would not expect it to place in the top. Serreno sucks! Legacy would have been such a better choice, and BH is not hard to take down either unless he gets his D off.

As has been stated, the texas tourney was missing several key pieces/abilities, many of which i think are much better counters to what was run. I am saying wait and see as there are too many tourneys left. You are saying 1 in the books - case done its over.

_________________
The Wookiee Master

Check us out over at Pojo.com

"It appears the Bothans have rooked us again."
-Obi wan


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Championship 2009: Dallas Regional Tournament Report
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 1:11 pm 
The One True Sith Lord
The One True Sith Lord
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:12 pm
Posts: 2026
Location: Nixa,Missouri
Sithdragon13 wrote:
Yeah not so black and white as you conveniently forget what you ahve said a 1000 times before. You cannot run "hate" and expect to win. Frank may have been the second best player there, but i look at his squad and i would not expect it to place in the top. Serreno sucks! Legacy would have been such a better choice, and BH is not hard to take down either unless he gets his D off.

As has been stated, the texas tourney was missing several key pieces/abilities, many of which i think are much better counters to what was run. I am saying wait and see as there are too many tourneys left. You are saying 1 in the books - case done its over.


I guess I missed the one is done case done its over part.

I would say these Regionals were about on par with what I expect from Gowk and they also just add support to a trend I think that will play out.

If this is about Gowk.... I missed the part that said he was easy to take down. What I saw was a tourney centered around how to deal with him or him. This is exactly what the problem with him is. This is exactly what will make the game boring to the point people will quit playing (at least DCI). Aaron has already reported one of his best young players is ready to quit. Why? Not because he doesn't know how to run Gowk.... but because he makes the game stale.

Scott, What would the tourney report have looked like if there was no Gowk? What would have been the squad to beat.

Frank played the only direct counter to Gowk built. Dooku of Serrano. He was playtested against Gowk at Wizos.... so he is the counter. Nevermind he dies against everything else. Dooku can take OBi in a one on one everytime. Frank is the 2nd best player there.... he came in 8th trying to circumvent Gowk and destroy Gwok.

I would prefer this not be a personal thing.... as this is about the Regionals and not who said what.

We will have other Regionals and then a better sample size for our thoughts

_________________
ImageImage
"What is your bidding, My Master?"

Collection: 934/934

SWM DCI Content Manager


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Championship 2009: Dallas Regional Tournament Report
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 1:15 pm 
Death Star Designers
Death Star Designers

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:07 pm
Posts: 811
Quote:
We will have other Regionals and then a better sample size for our thoughts
Exactly.

_________________
The Wookiee Master

Check us out over at Pojo.com

"It appears the Bothans have rooked us again."
-Obi wan


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Championship 2009: Dallas Regional Tournament Report
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 8:46 am 
Jedi Knight
Jedi Knight
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:39 pm
Posts: 370
Location: Cincinnati Ohio
dnemiller wrote:

If this is about Gowk.... I missed the part that said he was easy to take down. What I saw was a tourney centered around how to deal with him or him. This is exactly what the problem with him is. This is exactly what will make the game boring to the point people will quit playing (at least DCI). Aaron has already reported one of his best young players is ready to quit. Why? Not because he doesn't know how to run Gowk.... but because he makes the game stale.


I did not know Trace was wanting to quit because of GOWK. The game I ran ageist him he was really upset becasue I was able to kill Luke and ran and won without having to engage any of his other pieces. And Trace is a very good player and is improving greatly.

I played Aaron last Sat 3 times. First game he ran Vong and I ran GOWK. It came down to him killing my 20 hp Dash for the game. i made the save and won. Second game he ran a B&B varent with 12 activations I think and I only had 11. Another close game and he won but once again I think I was again another 50 50 shot and that was becasue I made a mistake in the beginning. 3rd game we were both tired and I ran Dash and Vader Unleashed and he ran GOWK. Was not really a good game since we were not playing at our best and he made some errors and GOWK got gripped and lightninged in the 4th round and their was not escape for him.

14 people does not seem like a lot of people to show up for seeing we usually average around 9 to 10 people at ours but it has been falling to low numbers and I would not be surprised becasue it is GOWK. After the reginals I am not going to run him again and won't have to becasue I know we are banning him and coming soon I know he is going to be banned.

_________________
Image*******Image

Duct tape is like the force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the world together.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Championship 2009: Dallas Regional Tournament Report
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:29 am 
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:30 pm
Posts: 160
Location: Colorado
Sithdragon13 wrote:
Yeah not so black and white as you conveniently forget what you ahve said a 1000 times before. You cannot run "hate" and expect to win. Frank may have been the second best player there, but i look at his squad and i would not expect it to place in the top. Serreno sucks! Legacy would have been such a better choice, and BH is not hard to take down either unless he gets his D off.

As has been stated, the texas tourney was missing several key pieces/abilities, many of which i think are much better counters to what was run. I am saying wait and see as there are too many tourneys left. You are saying 1 in the books - case done its over.


I'm actually agreeing with sd13? That hasn't happened in a while :P.

Kidding aside, though, I think he is completely correct here. Serenno does not have the faction support that he needs in order to compete at this point. If he were Empire, I'd say he'd almost double in usefulness, but he's not. And like Scott, I'm currently waiting to see how things play out at this point. Heck, if I were able to attend GenCon this year (stupid financial problems), I would definitely NOT be running GOWK... but that's because I would rather prove that there are squads out there that can compete in the field at this time. Heck, I've already posted which squad I'll be running at the CO regionals, and I think it's a strong counter to a lot of the squads that are cropping up at the various regionals.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 31 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 6 hours

Mark forums read

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Jedi Knights style by Scott Stubblefield