Many thanks to Dean for running the event!

I chose to run some Grevious Fun.. a Squad I call:

Speedin' and Grievin'

GG DAC (or the dacari, as I like to call him.)
IG Lancer Droid x2
San
BDO
Uggy x4
Map: Chancellor's SS


Joruus:
Boba MC
Mando Scout x3
Lobot
Uggy x3
Reinforcements(Uggy, KD BH[blew up and did 40 to the one Lancer], Gran)
Map: Hoth Echo Base

My first match was vs Joruus on my map. I set up on the left and tried to make sure that I could stay out of Los for more than one round.. I couldn't. Lobot opened up the doors and Boba set to work on the Lancers.. but he missed one of his attacks! Hurray!, so the rest of the round saw me swoop around with the two Lancers trying to kill as much as possible. I managed to kill most the scrubs and a missed attack left Boba @ 20.. 1 Scout died, 1 was down to 10 Hps, and one was untouched.
Luckily for me again, I won the finally init and killed Boba and the one Scout, taking the last one down to 10. Widly, the Gran crited to kill the one Lancer, and the scout rushed up to try and take out the last Lancer.. but it wasn't meant to be, And that was the game.

Match 2

vs Billiv15
Anni, Champ of Nelvaan
Aurra Sing
Padme, Senator
Lando DS
R2-AM
Mas
Uggy x3 (i think)

Map: Yavin 4 Massassi Temple

It was a strange Game, once again played on my map, and I started on the left, I tried to do the same thing as before, but my rools weren't as lucky this time. Grevious tried to engage Anni early on, but couldn't hit him or got blocked.. Aurra tried to shoot my lancers but couldn't hit to save her life.
I was nervous about squaring off with Anni CoN, since his Djem/Block kinda nerfs my all-Melee team.. I ran a Lancer far far ahead, and was able to win the following init, I got to Strafe just about everyone execpt Anni and hide the Lancer in the corner..But Lando was upset about being attacked and finished my Lancer with a Stellar attack.
Anni eventually moved to the centre of the map, and just stood there, kinda getting in the way. I didn't really feel that one Lancer (full Hp) and Grev could take down Anni/Aurra/Lando... so what the heck, I started my strafe.. Anni got the 1st Djem, and hits, and misses... lucky for me! on the 2nd Djem, he fails... Fprr.. fails! 40 damages to Anni and off I go, hitting Aurra(down to 50 now) and killing Snowbunny.
Now if I could win init, I could taken out Lando and brougfht Aurra down to 10, while hiding! but I lost the init, and the Lancer disappeared. Aurra hit a 10 and that was enough to take it down.
Grevious did his best, bring Anni down to 30, with some help from San and the BDO (all that was left!), but while San hit Anni, taking him down to 30, Anni missed the fprr, and I couldn't activate Grevious to finish him off (woulda needed 3s or 7s).
Having no Ranged Damage really hurt me on this match up, if Grevious' Blaster was non-melee I would have been set

Final Game vs darthraven
running his terrific trio!

Darth Caedus
Lumiya
Aurra Sing
Map: Cloud City

well we played on my map, yet again! I set up on left, and greedily zoomed for first round gambit. It nearly cost me, as Caedus was able to assault a Lancer, needing 8s, he missed once. And Lumiya Force Pushed the second one, closing the main door. Well not to be denied, I was able to double Strafe everything, and run both away to safety. Feeling confident, I even ran Grevious up to 'shoot' Lumiya. taking her down to 30.
I forgot Flow Walk only takes 3 fp!
I lost init, and Caedus, flow walked toward Grevious, hitting him, then on his turn, raged and swung! But he missed 1 of them, so Grevious was ok... I thought.. Then Lumiya (in range thanks to MR3) smacked away.. first attack... crit! Grevious is down to 10... just needs an 8 to take him out.. miss, fprr.. 1.. epic.
Well the one Lancer swooped around, and blew up Lumiya, taking out Caedus, the IG and San, letting me strafe the 2nd IG onver Aurra, and block her from getting Grevious.
10 hp left on Grev.. 10 on Aurra, 10 on the Lancer.. and Grev shot his stick, ending her!

All in all, I had a great time with the Lancers.. 24 Square Strafe of awesomeness.. but next time I would go with -Lancer&uggy +2x IG-86s, just gotta have some ranged support.

Standings:
1st. Waves_Blade
2nd. empirejeff and Luke_Skywalker (tied!)
3rd. Ruhk and Joruus (tied!)
4th. Billiv15
5th. pitchstar
6th darthraven
7th. nuksaa

2 first timers! way to go guys, the more bodies, the better!

I'll throw my report up here:
My Squad:
Ani Con
Padme, Snow Bunny
Wicket
T3-M4
Rex
Camassi
2x Ugo
R2-Astro

Round 1 v Billiv on Yavin Temple, His map

Almost a mirror match
Ani
Padme
Mas
Aurra
Lando
2xugo and R2

I pulled out a win with careful placement of a Caamasi

Round 2 v Wave's Blade
I won map, Cloud city

Malak DLOTS
Aurra Sing
2x Sith Mauraduers
1x Jawa
Ugos

We both advanced towards the gambit zone and all chaos Ensued. I based a full Malak with a 50 HP Ani after a crucial Initiative win that killed Aurra sing. (Malak was all He had left was worth anything) He used sith rage to kill Rex, Then Crit ani, and ani failed his block, but made the Djem sho putting 10 on Malak before biting the dust. It was a slow uphill climb from that point, and I lost.

1-1

Round 3 was against Pitcher Star

Pitcher was running Boba Enforcer and Tarpals with a shieldbearer and 3-4 artillerists. I made all of my cesta saves with Ani, and that was the story.

2-1

Pretty good for my second Vassal Tournament. I feel good about it and really cannot wait for another one.
He used Sith rage to do 30 to Rex and Drop Him, and

1. wave
2. empire
2. luke
3. jc
3. ruhk
4. bill
5. pitch
6. dearth
7. nuksao

game 1 pitchstar- Good game. the battle was the top of the map. HTe gungans tried to ceasta me but i just kept rerolling. Sidious handed out an absurbed amount of Fp. ANd But that made a huge difference Eventualy I was able to get across and had osme fun. He also had a Boba. both our BOba's ended up with 20 hp pitch healed some.THe gungan also had a shiled which made Boba fly in close after taking down some flames.

game 2 dearth revan- THis was the clash of some evil jedi. But really the only person of any signefience to die was Ceadious, and some uggies.

game 3 wave- i killed the maurders and got aura down to 30 hp. but Malsk just kept on going. Waver rolled too many crits. 3 on my main star, and 2 on my uggies. Those maruder fell down hard. I won the early int.which allwed me t kill those maruders, but would have been nice to win another int. This game had some pumped up uggies in it.

Well, first off congrats to the Waves on a nice run.

Second, you guys need to learn that these are not the championship. In the last two weeks, I have been stalled out (completed 4 rounds in an hour, of which I had 7 activations) and then locked out in a 124-130pt game, when it wasnt even needed.

This kind of stuff needs to stop, and the people doing it need to learn to recognize the difference. I will no longer be playing in these tournaments because of this garbage. I enjoyed the first few I have played in because they were fun, and while people played competitively, the dirty tactics were left out of it.

So I hope you all enjoy them, I will not be participating again.

Glad you enjoyed the tournament.

This is getting old. For the ump-teenth time, Bill, I did not stall you out. As I said, I was new to playing swap squads, which was only made more difficult by having the movement options of Yobuck to think about. It wasn't stalling, by any means. It was not my intention at all to run down the clock, no matter what you might say otherwise. I thought you knew me better than to think that. Give me the benefit of the doubt. Hey, a few days afterward when you and I were chatting, you said that you were really tired from the night before, implying that you might have overreacted a bit...I've got no problem with that, because we're all short on sleep now and then. But then let it go. I wasn't stalling.

And give Joruus the benefit of the doubt too. He did not use cheese tactics at all. There is no way a Scout and Lobot can tackle a 70 hp Aurra sing, especially not when Aurra just needs 1 shot to win the game on points. For Joruus to not lock the door (or any door in gambit) would've been suicide, and you know you would've done the same thing that Joruus did...in fact, some people even pointed out during the game that you've done it in your real-life games too. It's a simple tactic that anyone would employ when their opponent has lost their door control.

You're a competitive and skilled player who tends to win at SWM a lot. Maybe you just need to learn to take a loss more graciously.

4 rounds in an hour is a major problem in my book Trevor, regardless if you did it on purpose or not (which I am sure you did not). It doesn't change the fact that you played incredibly slow in those last two rounds in particular, and won because of it. You could have forfeited the win had you felt badly about taking so long because you were new to the squad. That was your choice to take a stalling win. And actually Tint, if you remember the discussion we had about it after the game, you specifically showed me your plan was to run Yoda all over the map and hope to win on time. You used 20 minutes over the course of two rounds where I did nothing in that time, only to run. Your clear intention was to win on time, not even try to engage and reach the point total. That is stalling by the letter - whether you want to admit it or not. I just didn't call the judge in there because before these events, I was not aware we were playing cutthroat - which is not something I am interested in doing on a weekly basis.

And let's not bring up Jonny's point either - as he was wrong. He was referring to practice games before Gencon I had with him. I have only used a lock out one time in DCI games in my life. And that was to prove a point to someone that their squad needed more door control. Not to mention that there is a significant difference between what I would do in a high level tournament game, and what I am willing to do/allow in what is supposed to be fun online games with our friends. I am sorry, I do not want to play weekly super competitive events where every game you have to worry about someone using the highest level of cheese tactics.

Play the game out. Its as simple as that. And since I don't seem to be getting through to anyone otherwise, the easiest solution is to take my self out of the equation.

Now, to discuss the game - as you claim he had no chance otherwise - which is complete bull.

Aurra needed 3 rounds of hits to kill the scout, and he needed 4 rounds of gambit to win, less if he killed my Mas. I needed to base the scout, or get it out of cover to even have a shot at it. He could have accomplished the same thing by playing the game out. Scout kills Mas, and Lobot tries to stay in gambit. There was no need to lock them both in a room in the middle. So his option was to try and kill Mas, and collect 3 gambit points to reach the build total, without me hitting the Scout three times in 3 rounds (which of course I likely could not have, or to chase down Lobot, which is risky at best given that I had lost my door control figures.

In fun games with nothing on the line (we don't even have prizes), locking yourself in a room to collect gambit instead of trying to make a reasonable effort to win the game the right way is certainly legal, but its bad sportsmanship at the very least. Sure, I could have still run Mas up to take a chance at winning init, and shooting lobot for the win. Its about the use of abusive tactics. If you want, I can start to run every cheese I know every single week, never try out other figures or squads, and never play anything short of Tier 1, and championship tactics every week. How fun would that make the venue (in this case vassal)? You missed the point Trevor - our tournaments should be more like a local league play, not the championship. In our game your plan was to run, run, run. It just happened that time ran out at the end of our 4 rounds. On purpose or not, that is garbage. Same with Joruus.

Running and avoiding - which is the tactics both of you used are not appropriate in my opinion - and I will no longer be subjecting myself to them. I might play online tournies again, as I have calmed down from last night, but odds are good that if either of you are playing, I will not be.

Actually I had a lot of fun in 2/3 games. And most of my last game with Joruus was fun as well. But in 2 of my last 4 Vassal Tourney games, I have been subject to abusive tactics and that is not fun. Sitting there with nothing to do for 20 minutes over 2 consecutive rounds against Tint was not fun - especially since all he was doing with his 20 minutes was trying to figure out how he could run away and win on time. Watching Joruus change his mind after he said it was my turn to run away and lock the door is not fun.

In both games, I made the mistake of letting these two players take back their moves, after they said it was my turn, only to have each of them avoid playing the game. That is not fun for me. I don't want to play either of them again right now because of it, and have an extremely sour taste in my mouth about it. Its as simple as that.

Not to upset anyone here, but I view these tournaments as a learning tool. Currently, and for about the last month, I have pretty well been considered the best at my LGS, where I play most of my tournaments. I know for a fact that I am not the best player out there, but I want my skills to be top level skills. I think that these Vassal Tournaments are the best way for me to prepare for that. I plan on attending Gencon 2009 and am hoping to do some winning. And when I look at how to practice for that I have to think that the vassal tournaments are the best way of doing so. When I play in a Vassal Tournament, I will be playing something competitive and playing to win, not because I want to upset people, but because I consider the field of Vassal Tournament players to be the BEST. Many people who have participated in the Vassal Tournaments have placed highly in national tournaments more than once in the past. I have a desire to test my skills against the best, and improve my game to the next Level. I can remember one game in particular with LoboStele on Vassal that allowed me to elevate my game because I learned an important lesson about positioning on the Death Star. Now when I am on that map, I do not make the same mistake. I have learned to use the Camassi Noble from Watching Bill use it in one of his Sith squads, in a FUN game with a friend of mine who was learning Vassal. Playing in these tournaments allows me to see the best of the best at their best. I for one will be participating in as many of these as I can.

I had alot of fun.
I played Caedus, Lumiya & Sing.
I'm surprised how well my little gang did.
They had a chance to win the 2 games that I lost. If a couple things had gone differently & I had gotten a little luck. But isn't that always the case!?

Well said, Dean. I'm happy to see your position on this & I for one appreciate your efforts in holding the tournaments.

The context is important when making a comparison...

Sure it is. What is not legal is taking 20 minutes over the course of two rounds to figure out where to run to. Again, it was my error for not calling in the judge during that game. I won't make that mistake again. It was also my mistake letting him change his mind on letting me go first after I had already started counting spaces. I won't let that happen again either.

Enforce and encourage are two different things.

You cannot have the players handle this stuff on their own, and have it be a competitive tourney at the same time. When two players are playing under different assumptions and styles, it ain't going to happen. The two are not reasonable expectations that can be held together at the same time.

Just so I am clear - the expectation is that we are playing top tier competitive, all out tactics each and every week. Fine, I can live with that. I will be following suit from now on. Expect a lot more calls from me to enter my game Dean, because I will be calling stalling every time, I will be playing the same 3-4 squads every time, and I will be enforcing every rule. Opponents be warned, you will not be allowed to take back any moves once you are done from now on against me. You will follow the correct activation rule with Dodonna and will tell me each and every turn how many you are activating before you start your turn. If you are incapable of playing your squad to completion in the time allotted, whether because you are playing a new squad or doing it on purpose, you will be called for stalling - and given what Dean said above, I will expect that Dean will make the call as necessary. And given that most of you play significantly slower than usual when playing against me, you can expect I will be calling Dean into the room early and often. You can also expect that I will be killing your ugos, getting a points lead, and running, overriding and hiding every single game.

Boy that sounds like fun. I really hope you all enjoy these, as you will probably be quite tired of playing this way after about 3-4 weeks.

How about Dean just stays in the same room as you.

I played Tint in that same tournament as you, and we finished before the timelimit ended. I have played Tint a few time in these tournies. I can remember at least 3 times. He did seem to play a little slower in that one than the others. So yeah I believe he just did not know what to do. And neither did I at first. We still finished on time.

Have i played tint other than the time times that I can remember?

Oh so people would be miserable if I played like that every week? Well then, perhaps a different approach is required of the players and we should try to play the games out instead of running and playing for time.

I have an opinion on all this but I'm sure it's pointless to even attempt to express it. All I will say is please understand, dnemiller, that this is just one person & I think the rest of us are appreciative of your efforts in running the tournaments.

Who said I wasn't appreciative of his efforts? My complaints are about playstyles, not Dean. Please don't confuse the issue.

My point is that people shouldn't be approaching every game like its the world championship. I've used a little sarcasm today to hopefully show people that they really don't want us to play like that, and I am not sure what Dean is taking offense at. Probably annoyed that people are complaining I guess. But it really has nothing to do with him.

I'm glad you're appreciative of dnemiller's efforts. I'm not going to go round with you on the rest of it. I want these tournaments to continue. I think he doesn't want to deal with drama. Hopefully we can all make that happen & act like adults & be respectful of him & each other.

I think this paragraph really sums up the core of the discussion so far. In particular, the bolded section. I'm curious what everyone else thinks, because this is news to me. Here's why:

When these tournaments started, most of us who played were preparing for Gencon, so we were bringing near-top squads every time, and using championship tactics. I know that playing at that high level in these vassal tourneys went a very long way in helping to prepare me for Gencon. And as we were playing these games, it really seemed like the atmosphere was extremely positive, even in the midst of the high competition levels.

Now remember, I don't have an LGS, and so I don't know what a "LGS-atmosphere" would look like with a DCI tournament. I certainly know how to play "just friendly" games, and I do it a lot, both in my house and on Vassal (I used to play in the GVL a lot). But I've never been part of an LGS group, and so I have no idea what that should look like. But whenever I think "tournament" I think competitive. And whenever I think "competitive," I think of trying to make the best possible move in every situation (and therefore have no problem with running or locking the door, etc). Maybe that's misguided, but that's how I've always understood it.

I don't think competitive means cutt-throat, though, and it's certainly not malicious. For example, I always ask my opponents if they want to Deflect, Block, BG, etc. Technically I know I don't have to, but I want it to be a fun and fair game. I also often compliment my opponents on good moves and creative strategies, because the game is first and foremost about fun. Competitive is a good thing, IMHO...I don't know why anyone would intentionally make a bad move in a tournament (i.e., such as attacking Ani CoN with a 20 hp Yoda). But competitive is a very different thing from cutthroat.

So my question for everyone is this: How do we as the Vassal Tourney players tend to see these tournaments? Competitive? Friendly? A mix of the two? Something else entirely?

I've honestly always thought that these Vassal tourneys were competitive DCI events, similar to the events at Gencon, which were the only other DCI events I've ever played. Have I been misguided this whole time? lol...maybe, it wouldn't be the first time!

The thing is, if I'd known that these are non-competitive DCI tournaments, I would've for sure suggested playing another quick round in our game (the Ani-Yoda matchup) and I would've even been open to the idea of forfeiting, though I hadn't thought of that option until you mentioned it in this thread. In non-competitive games I've frequently been in a situation to take an easy lock-out victory, but I've not taken it, because it's not important who wins the non-competitive game. But things are quite different in a competitive tournament, and if, for example, I were playing against Joruus in a competitive tournament, I would've certainly expected him to do the lockout with Lobot.

In a similar vein, some of you might remember that wierd game back in May or June when I played against LoboStele in one of these Vassal tourneys and my Boba Disintegrated his full-health Mara, right before his MTB would've allowed him to kill most of my squad...I felt dirty rolling that 20, but it was a competitive DCI tournament--my first ever--and so I just let it stand. In a "friendly" game I would've certainly rerolled it because I don't like the big D.

I'd really like to know what the rest of the players think about the question I raised earlier: How do we as the Vassal Tourney players tend to see these tournaments, and how do we want them to be played?

I'm honestly happy with any style of play, and I'll certainly continue to participate no matter what style the majority of people prefer. I'd be happy to bring my HanST/IC swarm again, even though it's an auto-loss against any Yobuck squad (and several others too). I'd also be happy to play high-level competition too. I guess this whole issue has forced us to ask ourselves the question, becuase it looks like it has all stemmed from a big miscommunication of intentions. So what do you guys want?

i havent played in either tournament that has so called problems. first of all bill i was out of line telling you to shut up. dean please dont stop running the tournaments ill do any thing to help out to stop you from not running them anymore. when ever you think someone is slow playing in the vassal tournaments tell dean and he will watch the game for a little.if he thinks there is slow play he will add time. he did this for tint and me when we tied and my boba rolled a 1 i lost. he has done this for slow playing too. . first i dont care if its the finals at gencon(maybe im going to far)we should have fun first then think about winning. im a pretty good poker player like 2 years ago i won like 5,000 dollars in like 3 weeks and it got to my head(i was in college at the time). all i cared about was winning and i wasnt getting anywhere for like a year. so all im saying is we play minis for fun first and winning is second.