Repost of this thread for those who prefer to discuss it here:
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1114193

We have a bunch of new maps, so let's hear what people think about adding some or all of them to legal DCI map lists at the various point levels. Here's pics to ease discussion.

1. Freight Transit Station


2. Muunilinst Commerce Plaza


3. Taris Undercity


4. Christophsis


5. Christophsis Intact


6. Ossus Jedi Temple


Question 1: Of 1-6 are there any you feel strongly should become legal, or remain illegal, and why?

Question 2: Of the currently legal, are there any you think should become illegal? Any concerns about Hoth, for example?

Question 3: Of the currently illegal maps is there any simple change (something that could be listed in a single sentence likle the current DCI notes for Night Club for example) that would be enough for you to consider making them legal?

Well, I definately feel strongly that 1-3 should be legal. I am pretty indifferent about 4-6. About the closest I get to DCI is sealed and Vassal, so take my opinion for whatever it is worth.

Sarah seemed to suggest in a WotC thread that all maps are DCI legal until decided otherwise, and said she was going to check with DCI guys about it.

Is she wrong?

In any case, I'm in favor of maps 1-5 being legal, but not Ossus. It's got Geonosian/Mustafar syndrome written all over it.

Also, I hope that's not the new trend with Gambit having the center area completely open.

From my post on the Wizard's board.

Question 1: I'm actually more of a fan of Christophsis (Destroyed) than Taris. Too often we designate maps as "shooter friendly", "melee friendly" or "balanced". I guess I'm a fan of extending those labels to more specific types such as "push friendly". I definately would not call it the Mustafar of Push Squads. I kind of like the idea of the Meta opening up a bit because of a map, and not because of the introduction of new pieces. When was the last time you saw a push squad in competitive play anyway and it still sits in the "Rock, Paper, Scissors" Play we've seen lately. Forget about this squad if it loses map or goes against Vong, the only squad, thus far, that I've seen completely fail on this map against push is the General OK JWM swarm.

As far as this being a "puddle jumper's" map, I see one current squad that can become fairly abusive on this map, but only in the hands of a skilled player. The Speedy Cannon. It's too easy for a novice player to get his nobles separated from the SS or leave them open for shots. Depending on the point level you could see a surge in some form of Boba Fett/Jango Fett combo but I don't see this map making any other flight pieces any more viable than they currently are.

Taris is still a good map and could probably be DCI legal.

The other Christophsis is too open, and because of the unbroken walkway, actually makes push more abusive than the other.

Ossus was a closed book a long time ago...fun map, but not good for DCI play.

2. No concerns, Hoth is decent.

3. I agree with Dean on Korriban, I however think the rule should be in between his and Jason's. (All pillars count as walls.) All green bordered is too much and the whole North-South thing could be confusing initially and to new players.

I'd have to see the comment again, but I'm not sure that's how she intended it to be taken even if that was how the question was phrased. There's a behind the scenes effort to get the Floor Rules updated in a more timely fashion. I wouldn't read anything more into it than that. The Floor Rules themselves are pretty clear about maps being illegal until made legal so a change to that would in itself require an update to the Floor Rules.

I have the Ossus map, but have never looked this up: Can LOS be drawn through the "windows" in the room on the south of the platform? If yes, then no I wouldn't want to play a competitive game on that map as there would be no safe spot to move from the platform to the steps.

I commented that I would like to see the maps be legal the day of release just like the minis. Her response was "I talked to Reid and they should be?"

And then, if I recall, there was some comment about sending X to Y to get Z updated, which would be entirely unnecessary if she truly understood your question about having maps be legal without waiting for the floor rules to be updated at all. Therefore, she must not have understood it the way you meant it.

I’d like to give my input, with the following preamble, My DCI experience is nil.

But, from what I know about DCI and the game mechanics, I’d have to Say that The Transit Station is your obvious number 1 pick for 150 points, and probably 200 points.
I’d take the Muunilinst at 150 Points for sure. Taris is decent for 200 Points and probably 150 points.

The Kris Kristofferson maps aren’t so hot, but the wrecked map seems ok for both point levels, probably more for 150.

Ossus is perfect for epic light saber duels at the end of an RPG.

I think Ossus is the only one that should straight up be illegal, and I’m not to hot for Hoth Either. It seems to me that it’s only a slightly more balanced Endo Bunker. It seems to me with all the Door control options out there that It could make for a kind of silly game.

I would probably leave the unscathed Kristofferson map out of the DCI mix, it seems too much like the old Mustafar map, mixed with some of the problems with the Korriban map.Too "Shooty"

Well we are going to have to have floor rules updates more than once per year, then. We cannot have maps come out in the spring that are not DCI-playable until late summer or early fall.

I know you know that, just saying...

I think if the maps are auto-inducted into DCI play upon release, it's going to require seeing them pre-production (the rough sketches).

I don't know if they will go for that or not.

Ok.



I'm sorry, I don't understand what's being said here.



And hopefully no one is doing trying to apply cross-logic from those games. I guess the question is: are we going to get more frequent updates to the floor rules than once per year?

In Magic they update the "ban/restricted" list each quarter. If that's the logic we're going to deal with, why not suggest a "ban/restricted" list concept for SWM, and just use it to adjust the maps?

Honestly, I don't think we should even try to be that fast.

I'd rather get it right than get it fast. A decision that relies on just a few people seeing it early doesn't get the cross section of public opinion I think is beneficial to the process. (And I say that as someone who would concievably be included in any pre-release access and discussion.) I much prefer that the map be available to all, and wait a month or two for public/casual play before any decision is made. I'd rather see them actually played on by a variety of people and venues before making a decision that will be enforced for 6-12 months.

This hurts a bit with a no brainer like Freight Transit Station, but helps with all the more questionable cases.

I just prefer to be a bit conservative and cautious with changes to the DCI Floor Rules. (As I mentioned to Dean privately, I think it's being rushed a bit right now and would be better served to be considered a bit longer before making any decisions. But if pulling the trigger quickly is the decision, we've at least got the right person doing it.)

back to the question of which maps should be legal, please do NOT make #6 legal. I hate playing on that map. It favors shooters way to heavily.

Well I think if you went with an update every 3 months, that would give you that 2-month window Nickname referred to for public review.

Take IE for example. It comes out in Feb., followed by the map packs either the next month or staggered over a 3-month period (I've heard it both ways, don't know which is correct). You could establish the next quarter announcement as the time that maps are declared legal, which would be June 1. Then, make the JA maps (if there are any) legal in Sept., if they are deemed worthy.

That would also allow time for the maps in the packs to be studied in time for the June 1 announcement.

Something else about Magic. A quarterly update doesn't mean there WILL be change, just that that's the time it can happen. Most of the announcements are "no changes."

I'm not saying this is the absolute must way to go, but if they want to think in Magic/D&D terms, here's a way I think we can do it that will benefit us and work within their parameters.

Okay Jay, here's my opinion.

1,2,3,5 Should be legal. They all have decent concealed starting area's, thier balanced for both sides so neither is REALLY at a disadvantage.

yes 5 is a bit more shooter happy, with poor chance for melee advancement, but really depends there what is and isn't a wall/cover. and having gambit exposed isn't a bad thing, it's just that on 5, it'll be hard to hide long from just your img.

4 and 6 I'd say leave out. both have unbalanced sides towards gambit were either your opponent can reach it well before you or you'll get cut to ribbons just trying.

When i pick my map for the night I sure pick one that will favor my squad, but also look at fact that if i get my map, I might not get lucky to get my choice side

LOS cannot be drawn through windows. DCI floor rules state that windows are treated as walls.

My quick opinion...

I say make 1 through 4 legal for all point levels. I've played on all of them several times and they are huge friendly and great to play on. Each has strengths and weaknesses, but overall are quite balanced. The new Muunilist in particular is a very cool difference from the old one.

5 (Cristophsis intact) I don't really like because the ONLY thing that will ever use the bottom 1/3 of the map are Chameleon Droids where they can sit out in the open and still not be shot. At least the 'damaged' Cristophsis has all the extra cover and walls along that bottom edge. Makes the entire map playable, not just the top 2/3. So the 'damaged' version slightly favors one side....So do several of the other maps in SWM: Rancor Pit, Muunilist, Starship, Throne Room, and to a lesser extent and depending on your squad, several others. With the new rules for choosing maps/sides, I don't see the slightly unbalanced maps as being near as much of a problem. Besides, there isn't a single map in the game where you can't reach Gambit by at least the 2nd round if you want to, and on Cristophsis, neither side has an advantage once they are in Gambit, unlike some other maps.

Ossus....right out. We've had that discussion before.

Echo Base Outpost I am fine with leaving legal for all point levels. The strength of that map is having a squad that can unleash a lot of damage in the very first round. The new Train Station is the perfect counter to that map, and I love that that option exists now. Sure, it sucks to lose a game based on a map roll alone, but for some people, that's going to happen with the Train Station too. So it will come back to building squads that can compete on any of them. One type of map naturally keeps the other in check, IMO.

Looking at the not great pictures, all the gambit zones sem to be not good.