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 Post subject: Re: HAVE YOU HAD ENOUGH? - The Alternative to DCI discussion
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:42 pm 
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I'll ask the SWM players at my LGS about what they think about it.

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 Post subject: Re: HAVE YOU HAD ENOUGH? - The Alternative to DCI discussion
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:31 pm 
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I am definitely in.

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 Post subject: Re: HAVE YOU HAD ENOUGH? - The Alternative to DCI discussion
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:16 pm 
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Sounds like a plan to me.

Like others have pointed out, I honestly think that the biggest obstacle to breaking off entirely is the 'free stuff' we get for being involved with DCI. However, in order to qualify for that stuff, we have to do, what, one official event per month, right? Not sure what is necessary in order to get stuff like the 'LOTF/KOTOR Day' release event stuff, but the monthly League kits only require a pretty minimal commitment.

Unfortunately, there really is no way that our group here would be able to offer any kind of prizes to the entire organization unless there were some sort of yearly dues or something. Wizards creates the promos and such out of a pool of money that comes down from the profit they make from selling the game itself. So if we don't have a money input we can't create promo output.

But honestly, I think working together with DCI is the best anyways. The ultimate goal should always be to help Wizards come to their senses. Perhaps eventually they would let us run the competitive side of things and work WITH us on it, unlike the current situation with DCI. Who knows. But I definitely agree we need to keep them in the loop as much as possible.

As for a rating system.....like Madman pointed out, it's always great to reward people for simply playing games, win or lose. The trouble is having a system that cannot be extremely manipulated by just playing a crap-load of games all the time.

I'm thinking something as simple as a system that would start at a given ranking amount (say, 1000), and then you get X number of points for every game you play. Then, that value is modified first of all by whether you won or loss (more points for a win), and likely modified based on your opponent's overall ranking or win/loss ratio. Then, your overall ranking could be modified somehow based on your overall win/loss amount. If you are 10-0, you should get a nice boost to your overall ranking score. If you're 0-10, you should get something subtracted from your ranking. Not exactly sure how the math works at this point, but I think it could work. Honestly, it's pretty similar to the current DCI system with the added bit of some sort of scale factor based on your overall wins to losses.

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 Post subject: Re: HAVE YOU HAD ENOUGH? - The Alternative to DCI discussion
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:23 pm 
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Dean I am in for sure I offer my services and talents to the cause. The Olivet crew says that they are in and we will probally report to both. My biggest concer is that we will keep gambit. I know many are against it but IMO it is needed.

dnemiller wrote:
well I guess that is just going to depend on your venue. I find that most venues already are doing this.

Such as how many venues have gentlemans agreements about maps right now

I would say most of them.... Sp I am not sure how many actual problem would arise from it


We actually don't ever play on for fun maps during DCI events. We have always played DCI since we learned of it. We even always play gambit (as if it were in the Rulebook).

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 Post subject: Re: HAVE YOU HAD ENOUGH? - The Alternative to DCI discussion
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:33 pm 
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Hey guys, I don't post here much, but Shawn's ideas on this topic have sparked my interest. I met several of you at Gen Con in 2007, and I've been playing SWM for years in the Dallas/Fort Worth area.

I am very supportive of making a true competitive venue/system for SWM.

However, I think perhaps we should approach it differently than Wizards has used DCI.

Here is a skeleton of what I would propose:

Objectives:

To provide SWM players with a system that rewards, nurtures, and accurately measures the competitive player sub-base within the SWM community.

Elaborating on this, I think it is important that we are not seen as a competitor for the attentions of DCI, we are not. Instead we are two different systems both built around the same game. If Wizards believes that there is no worth in supporting true competitive play through their DCI structure, then we should not fight this and try to bend DCI to suit our desires. Instead let DCI do what it does best: fostering casual and semi competitive local play and game awareness for the SWM product. This should not change. What our system will do is provide a system whereby competitive players can enjoy the game in their own way, leveraging and supplementing DCI’s moderate success at forming gaming communities across the world.

To be more specific:

The Competitive SWM (which I’ll refer to as C-SWM since I don’t have a better term offhand) will have a Board of Directors with yearly elections held by all members in good standing in C-SWM. The board will have several functions, primarily however it will be the rules authority and also be responsible for organizing the yearly C-SWM championship. The yearly Championship will be held at a location and time deemed fit by the Board and the qualifiers will work something like this:

C-SWM will host regular events on a semi-annual basis. I would suggest hosting them quarterly. We could organize these events on a regional level (If within the US each state could have its own qualifier, and at the international level we could break it out on a case by case basis depending on the size of said player communities).

Each region would have an organizer who is responsible for the event, and who has authority to delegate tasks to anyone he sees fit and is in good standing with the C-SWM Board.

At each quarterly event, participants play Swiss Style rounds (this is certainly open to discussion, since this will be a truly competitive environment we could move to single or double elimination systems etc.) and the winners will receive C-SWM points equal to their rank.

For example earning C-SWM points could work something like:

If there were 4 regional events in Texas for 2008, and I participated in all 4:

Q1 Texas Regional:
1st place – 3 points

Q2 Texas Regional:
3rd place – 1 point

Q3 Texas Regional:
Non-ranked (finished below top 3) – 0 points

Q4 Texas Regional:
2nd place – 2 points

Giving me a total of 6 points for the year. This gives me some overall rank among all the players in my region. We can also make a Vassal region and even do a couple of “Open” Region qualifiers if the game got popular enough.

The top X number of players from each region will be invited to the yearly C-SWM championship hosted by the C-SWM Board of Directors.

There are several advantages I see to making C-SWM a semi-annual or quarterly event:

1) We will be small to start with, and trying to get events together every weekend at our LGS will quickly tire us out and would also put us in direct competition with DCI games.

2) We can charge more for an entry fee you only have to pay 4 times a year. Look at it like a sporting event or a convention, going to one of these you would not be surprised to pay $50 or more. Having a higher cost of entry should make it clear that the intent is for serious competition while simultaneously providing funding for the organization and its prize support.

3) Preparation time. Making the events less frequent puts more importance on each game, making each person play harder and allowing you several months between each event to work on squads and ideas. Each qualifier will be a significant event that will be worth recounting or maybe even making a trip across state lines to participate. We can play DCI and other casual play like normal in our LGS to test out ideas and get ready for the big events.

We can build an online database that shows how many C-SWM points people have earned in a year or lifetime and the numbers will be relatively small and manageable since the events will be spaced out and infrequent so there is no need to have people working on data entry and validating tournaments every week from places around the world.

Anyhow, this is a start for my idea. I would love to be involved in helping you guys work through this as I also have a passion for competitive SWM play.


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 Post subject: Re: HAVE YOU HAD ENOUGH? - The Alternative to DCI discussion
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 5:02 pm 
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Grand Moff Boris wrote:
I think its a lot of unncessary work.

We could use DCI and do our own events (ie qualifiers, regional tournaments, etc.), and then let them worry about the Championship.

Despite everything, I still think the solution to this is cooperation not competition. We start butting heads with them and you think they're difficult to deal with now - just watch. Right now, we still have allies in the company. I don't want to alienate them, or force them into a position where they can't support us.


I completely agree with Boris. (Cue fireworks spectacular!) :D

The way DCI handles SWM is, at times, mindbending. But given how little it actually matters at the local level and how easy it is to just report into their system and ignore the downsides I really don't see a need to something akin to boycotting it.

Would a big fan organized tourney be cool? Yes, but barring some rule-craziness I don't think anyone intends, you could still do this and report it into the DCI system.

Would a better ranking system be cool? Yes, but you can report into this system in addition to reporting into DCI.

Would it be nice to be able to immediately alter the equivalent of the DCI Floor Rules? Yes, but if your local venue is affected that significantly by the FR, just fix it yourself and keep quiet about it. (While I can't advocate it officially on WotC's board, if you have a local problem with a map or something else similarly minor and it's univerally agreed upon by your local players just quietly ignore the rule and make it fun. The ratings part is meaningless anyway and the DCI floor rules are ignored so much through ignorance anyway that a small house rule or two that helps your local environment just isn't something to worry about. I think what they've shared about WPN finally indicates that WotC has purchased a clue about this situation and it's not likely to be an issue down the road even if you've got some local noisemakers.)

EDIT: I was so excited agree with Boris that I guess I guess I jumped the gun by not reading the rest of the thread first. It appears your already moving toward what I said above.

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Last edited by NickName on Tue Sep 02, 2008 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: HAVE YOU HAD ENOUGH? - The Alternative to DCI discussion
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 5:11 pm 
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I know Dajuan and I are with you. We'll support any way we can.

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 Post subject: Re: HAVE YOU HAD ENOUGH? - The Alternative to DCI discussion
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 6:17 pm 
One of the Sith on Malgus' Shuttle
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I'm definitely in and wouldn't mind trying to help out somehow.

I'm am curious as to why people want to remove Gambit? To me, Gambit is a catch-22. Its good at times and other times its a friggin pain, lol. At GenCon I won 2 games in the Masters specifically becuase of Gambit (one of which I would won even without Gambit, but the other I woulda lost without Gambit). I've played a lot of local games without Gambit and those always end up as Kill 'Em All. It didn't really change how I played the game except for the fact that I wasn't forced to keep at least 1 character in Gambit. I kinda think that, at times, I play a little different when it is using Gambit. Instead of "ok, I can move my Gran up there to open the door" its "ok, I need to move my Gran into Gambit or my opponent is going to be ahead of me in points".

With the removal of Gambit, how are to assure ourselves that someone won't completely turtle after first round? With more pieces now being able to dish out 120 damage in an activation its possible they can get first kill during the second round and then turtle the rest of the game, thus winning becuase there isn't any other way to get points if you can't get to your opponent (this, of course, is ignoring all the various ways we have to destroy/open doors).

So with those who want to remove Gambit, what are your reasonings for it? I didn't see it in this thread but I've seen a few people just mention it. Now I could just be completely rambling on (which I know I am, but I might be rambling more than usual)...


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 Post subject: Re: HAVE YOU HAD ENOUGH? - The Alternative to DCI discussion
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:41 pm 
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I think it will be a huge undertaking, but if we decide to do it, I will encourage it here in KC.

I also second the idea that KC (or Lamar) would work well for regionals or championships.


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 Post subject: Re: HAVE YOU HAD ENOUGH? - The Alternative to DCI discussion
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:44 pm 
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I have to admit, I really like the direction Wedge was going with his post. Instead of taking on some massive system, we could regionalize it and make it on a smaller scale. My idea is even slightly smaller than that of Wedge, but still accomplishes the same thing. Allow me to elaborate.

I think we need to break the Country/World down into several sections, known as regions. I’m going to use the following 4 regions just as an example, I’m sure there would be more added, depending upon the number of volunteers willing to help out.

Midwest Region
West Coast Region
European Region
Vassal Region

Each region will have a volunteer manager. That manager will be responsible for coordinating, advertising, organizing, and running one regional event (call it a qualifier if you want) in his or her area every year. The results of that regional tournament will go into a custom database that could be accessed by all members here on SWMGamers.com. It will be the Regional Managers responsibility to report those results to the online system. Each regional event will need to take place in the same calendar year, but before GenCon. So basically, Regional Managers would need to hold their event between January 1st and August 1st. Once every region has reported their event, the top qualifiers from that event will be invited to GenCon to participate in the Annual SWMGamers.com Big Money Championship! The number of top qualifiers from each region granted an invitation to the Championship would be based upon the number of regions currently in the system. If we had 5 regions then I would say the top 10 from each region would be invited. If we had 10 regions then we might invite the top 5 from each region. That part can be figured out later by a Regional Managers committee.

If GenCon/WotC were to try and roadblock the event (which is unlikely), then we could have it elsewhere, perhaps at another centralized Con. The top 8 finishers would receive a monetary prize; most of the money would be accumulated from the regional entry fees. In addition, the top finisher would receive a Star Wars trophy! I have some connections here in Dayton where we could get a good deal on a top notch custom trophy, better than the one WotC provides I can tell you that.

Finally, as for the rules. The DCI would continue to exist and draw the common player to their LGS for some casual Star Wars gaming. This new system would be used for determining regional and world champions only! We could govern our own set of floor rules, which I think should mirror about 95% of the DCI rules, and we could update or change those rules as the Regional Committee would see fit.

Personally, I think we could have upwards of 10-15 regions right from the start. Just knowing the players from around the world and country I think we could easily have these as regions:

North Midwest US Region (Michigan, Indiana, Illinois)
Central Midwest US Region (Ohio, Kentucky, Pennsylvania)
Central US Region (Missouri, Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska)
South US Region (Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Louisiana)
Southeast US Region (Florida, Georgia, the Carolina’s)
Northwest US Region (Washington, Oregon)
West Coast US Region (California, Nevada)
Northeast US Region (New York, Massachusetts, New Jersey)
European Region (Great Britain, France, Spain)
Vassal Region (Internet)
Australian Region (Australia)

It would take some time to work out an equal balance between each region, but it can be done. Some individual states may have enough players to warrant being their own region. That's something that could be worked out over the years as we see how many players (on average) attend each region’s qualifier event.

So that’s it, that’s my idea


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 Post subject: Re: HAVE YOU HAD ENOUGH? - The Alternative to DCI discussion
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 4:25 pm 
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My 1cent here:

I would prefer championship to not be in March. I have basketball tickets to enjoy!


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 Post subject: Re: HAVE YOU HAD ENOUGH? - The Alternative to DCI discussion
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 4:53 pm 
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It seems to me the the best option for an unofficial championship is still to work with Jim and Pasttimes to have the Main Event at Gencon be the big tourney. Let it serve double duty.

I think if you shoot for pretty much any alternative location, you really limit the attendance and it's a longshot to think it will be much more successful than PAX 2008. (I can envision getting to the ~32 break, but not the ~64. I do not think ~32 achieves what you want a major fan-run tourney to achieve.)

I find the talk of invitations and regionals at this point a bit odd. I guess it couldn't hurt to be prepared, but I can't see this going over the 128 players a large tourney can support anywhere outside of the Gencon Main Event. So what's the point of an invitation if no one is going to be turned away who wants to play, particularly if the number of players directly impacts the prize money which seems to be an important factor to many of the people intersted in this concept?

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 Post subject: Re: HAVE YOU HAD ENOUGH? - The Alternative to DCI discussion
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 4:56 pm 
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Looks good Shawn. I was thinking about our northern friends (Fool and Thereisnotry, among others) and was thinking they would have to be included in the Vassal section, I guess.

Dean, Dajuan and I both feel there should be a, um, public forum for discussing the March event. We assume there's one for mods to talk in, but since she's from St Louis and I'm thinking about my scenario, she and I have a lot of ideas and input for this event. Having it's own forum would be a good place for such discussions.

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 Post subject: Re: HAVE YOU HAD ENOUGH? - The Alternative to DCI discussion
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 5:39 pm 
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I would like to elaborate and/or clarify my idea a little further. I was heading back to work from lunch so I didn’t have time to give all my ideas.

First, after thinking about it some I believe that all regional qualifiers should take place between the dates of October 1st and June 1st. That way anyone who receives an invitation will have time to pre-order a badge for GenCon. I also think the winner of each regional qualifier should receive a free 4 Day Badge to GenCon.

One more note. Regional qualifiers should play a number of rounds until there is only 1 undefeated player. No cutting to playoffs or anything like that. Top 8 playoffs should be reserved solely for the GenCon SWMGamers Big Money Championship.

Next thing I thought about was the number of people who receive an automatic invitation from each qualifier. I believe this number should actually be a percentage, not a set number. I think 20% is a good number to start with (always rounding up). So if a regional qualifier had 21 participants they would get 5 (4.2 rounded up) automatic invitations to the SWMGamers Big Money Championship at GenCon.

I also need to explain my idea for a SWM Championship Point System (CPS for short). Regional Managers would still use the DCI Reporter software for tracking their event. Once the event is finished the results can be sent to the DCI, in addition those results must be e-mailed to the SWMGamers CPS Manager. The CPS would be broken down into two categories; Current Value and Historical Value.

The Current Value would reflect the number of points that a player has received for the current year (October 1st – June 1st). This number would reset itself to 0 every year after GenCon.

The Historical Value would start at 0 for each new player, but would never reset. This number would reflect every game a person has played over his or her CPS career. Including any and all matches played at the GenCon SWMGamers Big Money Championship.

Points would be rewarded as follows:

3 Points for a WIN
2 Points for a DRAW
1 Point for a LOSS

I’ve always felt like playing to a draw can be a strategic option, so players should not be penalized for doing so. In the DCI system a draw is the same as a loss, the CPS will at least reward 2 points for a draw.

Now I want to breakdown the invitation system. Players can play in as many regional qualifiers as they want, but once they receive an invite they may no longer play in any of the remaining qualifiers for that current year. I believe that the Vassal Qualifier should be the last qualifier played in the current CPS year. Doing so will encourage players to physically attend their regional qualifier first. If they don’t receive an invite then anyone in the world could have one last chance by playing in the Vassal Qualifier.

Regional Managers also need to make sure they schedule their events 4 weeks apart from any adjacent region. Since we would be abiding by our own self governing rules I do not see any reason why a Regional Manager could not participate in their own event. Provided they have somebody else to run the DCI Software and help judge.

After all regional qualifiers are complete and the invites have been determined, the remaining top 10 Current year point leaders will also receive an invite to GenCon. This helps to ensure that the player who really tries, but comes up a bit short will have a chance to play in the SWMGamers Big Money Championship as well.

After the initial year, we would add 2 automatic invites. The first auto invite would go to the previous year’s champion. The second auto invite would go to the player who has the highest Historical CPS value. Over the first year or two there might be some ties for the top Historical player, all those tied for the top spot will receive an automatic invite. If the previous champion and the top historical point player is the same person, then the next (or second) historical player will receive the auto invite. By giving an auto invite to the top Historical point leader you are also ensuring that person will not be able to pad their lead since they will not be able to participate in any of the regional qualifiers.

Now I want to breakdown the money and cost of each event. The entry fee for each regional qualifier would need to be a set number. I’m thinking $25 per person. $5 would go towards prizes for the regional event and the remaining $20 would go to the SWMGamers Big Money Championship organizer. The Vassal Qualifier would only need to have a cost of $22. I see Vassal being a last chance qualifier, so rewarding prizes isn’t necessary (besides it’s too difficult to ship stuff). However, each player participating in the Vassal Qualifier will need to pre-register using PayPal. $2 would cover the PayPal fee and the remaining $20 would go to the SWMGamers Big Money Championship organizer.

I’m going to base the following numbers on having 10 Regions with an average of 25 players per event. So we have 250 players, which means $5000 will go towards the SWMGamers Big Money Championship. The $5000 would be distributed as follows:

63 players would get an invite from the regionals; an additional 10 players will get an invite via the Current Year value. In following year’s we will give an additional 2 auto invites to the previous Champion and Historical point leader. So that gives us 75 total invites.

10 (4 Day) GenCon Badges to the regional winners = $600
16 Cases of Miniatures = $640 (everyone who plays the entire tournament gets a booster, 3 Judges would get 3 cases each)
General Supplies (including d20’s for every player and the Championship Trophy) = $160
GenCon will want $6 per person to reserve the gaming space = $450

Our total cost = $1850 which leaves $3150 to divide among the top 8.

1st Place = $1260
2nd Place = $630
3rd Place = $315
4th Place = $315
5th Place = $157
6th Place = $157
7th Place = $157
8th Place = $157

I think that about covers it. The CPS would be a simple system that could easily be done by hand (no creating software). At the same time we would still be reporting to the DCI using their software. Questions, Comments, or Ideas?


Last edited by stsparks72 on Wed Sep 03, 2008 7:04 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: HAVE YOU HAD ENOUGH? - The Alternative to DCI discussion
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:32 pm 
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dnemiller wrote:
I also would like to see the big money tourney not conflict with Pastimes and Jim.... I would like to see this be what we have in March. We are talking about have a big tourney in March in St Louis since it is in developmental stage why not plan on making this the Gamers Championship.... with real money being involved.

What are your thoughts as to going that way. This would keep us from conflicting with The great job being done at Gencon by Jim and pasttimes and give us another big tourney that while not being Gencon would be a money championship which gives people a reson to travel.
Well, I have communicated with Jim and I know that he is trying to give us a real Championship or Big Money event at GenCon. I told him that I didn't want to step on his toes at GenCon by having conflicting events, but there is also no guarantee that WotC will approve any such event. Not to be negative, but I actually think it's very unlikely that they will approve either of those events, I hope I'm wrong.

Unfortunatley we won't know anything until probably April since we have to wait for WotC to approve the Pastimes contract. I firmly believe that any true Championship has to be at GenCon. It's where gamers want to be, just having an event at GenCon is a major selling point. I don't know where the breaking point is, but I know we either detach ourselves from the big DCI event at GenCon or we wait each year in hopes that WotC will come to their senses. I would much rather see WotC come to their senses, but how long do we sit back and wait for them do the right thing? I'm fine with not moving forward with a plan this year, but if WotC bowls us over again at GenCon in 2009, do we sit back and wait again?

On another note, I did discuss the St. Louis event with Jim as well. I think it's a great idea and will be a nice get together for the SWM COMmunity. I would be hesitant to call it a Championship, but I will hold my opinion until I see how many people attend.

:)


Last edited by stsparks72 on Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: HAVE YOU HAD ENOUGH? - The Alternative to DCI discussion
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:35 pm 
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Some additions Shawn. First, let's not remove the previous qualifiers from play. Let them participate multiple times if they desire, and pay the entry fee. What we do is simply only give out one invite per person, and in the case of someone who has one already, move down the list. So say a tourney would get 5 invites and the player who has already qualified placed 3rd. Then 6th place would receive the 5th invite.

For example, let's say Matt and I both go to a Chicago qualifier and he places but I do not. Then we decide to travel to a Michigan event to try again, this way, Matt can still make the trip, still practice against good competition, and contribute more money to the pot. It makes it easier on groups to do it this way.

I would start the price at $30 as well. This is the traditional cost of a release event, so I think its within reason, and gets us a little higher.

I also think we should start by trying to work this into Passtimes and Jim's events. To me, there is no reason to go outside their system unless WotC makes us do so.

Otherwise, come join me in Logistics and Qualifiers Shawn, I'm thinking along the same lines as you.

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 Post subject: Re: HAVE YOU HAD ENOUGH? - The Alternative to DCI discussion
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:50 pm 
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billiv15 wrote:
Some additions Shawn. First, let's not remove the previous qualifiers from play. Let them participate multiple times if they desire, and pay the entry fee. What we do is simply only give out one invite per person, and in the case of someone who has one already, move down the list. So say a tourney would get 5 invites and the player who has already qualified placed 3rd. Then 6th place would receive the 5th invite.
Bill, thanks for the reply.

I originally thought about that too (especially when you consider they would add to the prize pool), but I'll share my line of thought with you. These were the questions that encouraged me to change my mind.

First question:
What if somebody was knocked out of an invite position because they lost to somebody who had already received an invite? I always try to think of the worst case scenario that could possibly present itself, because at some point it probably will. I would hate for somebody to cry foul after losing to a person that already received an invite.

Next question I aksed myself:
Should a player be allowed to pad their Historical Value after they have already received an invite? That sort of gets into an area of rewarding a player because they played more games than anybody else, even when they didn't need to.

I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just giving you some things to think about. Obviously any plan needs a lot of ironing out before it can implemented.

:)


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 Post subject: Re: HAVE YOU HAD ENOUGH? - The Alternative to DCI discussion
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 7:06 pm 
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dnemiller wrote:
Shawn I like this idea and would love to see you post this in the Logistics/Qualiifers thread.

You and Wedge sound like you could be a big help to Bill.


I also would like to see the big money tourney not conflict with Pastimes and Jim.... I would like to see this be what we have in March. We are talking about have a big tourney in March in St Louis since it is in developmental stage why not plan on making this the Gamers Championship.... with real money being involved.

What are your thoughts as to going that way. This would keep us from conflicting with The great job being done at Gencon by Jim and pasttimes and give us another big tourney that while not being Gencon would be a money championship which gives people a reson to travel.


FYI we are not locked into St. Louis. Could be there, but it's too early to say.

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 Post subject: Re: HAVE YOU HAD ENOUGH? - The Alternative to DCI discussion
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 7:24 pm 
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@Fool

Thanks for the questions and input.

There would only be enough time and money for one style of tournament, that being 150pts. So all value points (Historical and Current) would be based on 150pt games. I know that is probably disappointing for some to hear, but having 3 different regional qualifiers at 100, 150, and 200 would water things down and cut the Championship prizes big time. I also think it would be important to keep things consistant all the way through the GCPS ratings.

Current Value points would indeed reset to zero every year. The Vassal Regional Qualifier would be a great place for players to try and earn an invite.

I like the GameChips idea! It has a ring to it.


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 Post subject: Re: HAVE YOU HAD ENOUGH? - The Alternative to DCI discussion
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:56 pm 
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Fool wrote:
When Gencon Rolls around here's where we can make some changes (Depending on the competitors).


Let's be clear about something. "We" cannot make changes to what happens at GenCon as long as Pastimes gets the contract with WotC. It's even in the contract, and I know this because of the Hoth battle issues, that only Pastimes can host events for the games they get as part of the agreement. It's part of why the other Hoth event didn't occur this year. (I don't know the whole story, just bits and pieces.)

What we CAN do is make recommendations to Jim (or whomever Alan gets to be the head judge for SWM events), who will discuss them with Alan and then they will make the decision with WotC's support.

As frustrated as I am with WotC OP, what's happening here is even more disturbing to me. Some of it, anyway. But that's just my opinion.

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