I also like Nickname's idea of having a minimum of rounds for each game. I think its the best solution to stalling. This way even if the opponent plays slow, you can still plan what to do since your guaranteed to play a certain number of rounds before the game ends.

I like it as well. To me, any game should never go less than 6 rounds. Any less someone is clearly stalling whether intentional or not. I say add it to the DCI update list NN

I have had plenty of games go less then 6 rounds... I have died in 3!

You know what I mean...

LOL @ emr

Yeah, I think the intent would be that 6 rounds be completed in an hour. The only exception being when one opponent is defeated in less than 6 rounds.

I really like the idea.

@Fingers,
Chess clock doesn't add anything without a severe DCI update, and we're about 6 months out of our regular update.

Judges are there to help clear things up. I don't see how using something we currently have is worse than proposing something that will never happen.

Guy gets a warning, half an hour later he gets another warning, poof he's done and lost.

Hey folks,

I think everyone needs to read this thread - it is incredibly relevant to this discussion.

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2939

I had a long talk with Jim after the tournament was over and I have developed a definition of slow play.

Slow play: When a player's activations take excessively long to complete to the point that the game becomes difficult for the other player(s) to focus on what's happening.

I wanted to say when the game stops being fun for the opponent, but simply losing doesn't constitute slow playing by your opponent, nor does delays of game due to rules confusion or difficult strategy decisions your opponent needs to make.

In the game described in the link above, "Mr. Tortise." moved all of his available pieces each and every phase before settling on one to move. For example, in the first phase of the game he moved, Luke, then Cade, then Boba, then Han, as he counted how far they could all go. He then activated the Galactic Alliance Scout and it took him 4-6 minutes to actually position him where he wanted the piece to end its move.

Later in the game, he would spend several, several minutes mulling over decisions only to end up leaving his pieces exactly where they started.

This single game has done more to help me define slow play and to decide how I will deal with it when the time comes. While following the letter of "DCI law," I can promise I won't look upon it favorably. Not one damn bit.

Win or lose, the game is supposed to be a fun game of tactical combat. Spending 20 minutes to decide NOT to move a specific character does not contribute to the spirit of fun the game is supposed to employ.

Wow, that is crazy Dennis. You can definitely bet that at a GenCon level, not only would that guy lose to other squads (not an optimal squad build at all, IMO), but most anyone would call a judge on him immediately. If you 5 figures in your squad, it should take you no longer than about 3 minutes for the entire first round of your own pieces, let alone 10 minutes for the first turn. That's ridiculous. Even at a local level competition, you can bet that I would have said something to the guy and called the judge over.

At the very least, like you said, it was quite obvious that he was satisfied with being a jerk and winning without actually playing the game.

Dennis, I assume you are familiar with my stories from Gencon 06 about the Slow Player. What you described are exactly how this guy played, right up until the time that he realized that there were only minutes left and he couldn't catch me in points

But at the very least, I am glad you as our Gencon judge, experienced first hand what true rule violating stalling looks like. I think you noted the key "tricks" of the trade. While it sucks you had to play this tool, at least some good will come of it.

I just want to point out that while I was disappointed in the guy's play style, I don't think of him as a "tool." He's actually a nice guy in general, which I guess just added to my surprise about his behavior.

For crying out loud we were just playing for a handful of free minis. Wasn't like any of us were going to be able to go out and buy a yacht after winning. Perspective matters.

Okay, I want to bring up a quick point here. How long should finding Reserves take? If someone has Kazdan and rolls the "special numbers" a few times, should he be penalized for this? Should there be some sort of "have a few reserve selections made ahead of time" rule? Most people know what reinforcements they will use, but Garm opens up so many different possibilities, so this might change as well. Just an idea.

I have said this before, I saw a few people slowplaying at gencon 07. Did not like it much. Dean played against the same person i did last year, But sid he was a nice guy. But i played this guy and he had this team.
general kenobi
3x jwm's r2
anyway. he done like you said. Jumped into gambit got first round gambt on me. Then i did not mind that i knew i would be able to start hitting his jwm's with jango and do massive amounts of damage to them. he first tried to charge right at me. I thought he was arrogant and wanted to rush me. But my jwm's with wicket backup was holding there own vs his jango was burning thru there force points then it was getting close on points.
Thats when he started to turtle, He wanted to talk to the judge and say hi wanted to think about all his moves when he was based to my jwm and delpa. Then when jago got thru all there poiints and started to inflict a=massive amounts of damage he made a mistake. He moved his kenobi where after jango killed one of his jwm's my jwm's could base his last one and assault it possible kiling it. after i tarted to move my jwm's he asked if he could move his kenobi. Took all of two second for me to tell him SORRY NOT A THIS POINT OF THE GAME. He then tried to tell me i'm not trying to stall. If you have to tell somebody your not trying to stall you might just be.
But i pulled it out when time was called by having r2 tow jango to the gammbit zone and flamethrower his 4 uggs for a 3 piint victory. It was the sweetest win of the tourney for me.

Wow...crazy. I know I feel like dirt any time I take a minute or so to think about a move, and then realize "Oh crap, I haven't tapped X figures yet, and I could do those first." But then at least I know pretty much exactly what I'm going to do with other figs later in the game.

Oh, and Dean, I think at a GenCon level tournament, taking the first 11 minutes of a round (after the clock has been started, I assume) is grounds for disqualification, I thought. Don't you have to start your game within 10 minutes of time being started, or else you forfeit? If your opponent is sitting there, all his pieces set up and ready to go, and you're taking forever to set up your own stuff, it is absolutely not fair to the opponent to be losing time like that.



If you're going to play ANY piece with Reinforcements/Reserves at GenCon, you should have a separate small box of some sort with you in order to have those extra pieces immediately available. No more than about a minute or two should be necessary to dig out the figures. You can bet that if I face anybody at GenCon with a Kazdan centered squad, that I'll be making sure they have their Reserves ready to go every time. There's no excuse at a national level tournament to take more than a minute or two. Heck, even at our LGS anybody who plays those types of pieces typically are able to run over to their bag, and grab a few extra pieces within a minute or so.

I think the main problem comes down to people who really don't care if they finish their game, they only care if they win. Now, at GenCon, and even a lot of times at my LGS, I care more about winning than finishing the game within the time limit. But it is not SO much more important that it changes my playstyle. So, we are always aiming to complete the game within the 1 hour time limit (or often less than that). So, even at a huge, important event like the GenCon Championships, I am definitely playing to win, but I don't change my strategy and play slower just to get there.

For instance, against the guy with the Ewok swarm. If we'd played the game all the way out to the end, he very well might have won. If I played slow, there was absolutely no way he could beat me, because it took him a while to whittle down my pieces. But we played pretty quickly, and although we didnt' finish the game, we got pretty darn close. And I didn't change my playstyle at all just to make sure I won.

It's just going to mean that people who seem to be playing slow from one round to the next, as judges, you'll have to keep a close eye on them. If you notice anyone that only completed 4 or 5 rounds in a 1 hour game, then you should mention something to both of them, and just give sort of a verbal warning. Try to check up on them during the next round. If they seem to be playing slow again, keep an eye on them, though I would try to do it without letting them realize you are watching. They may alter their play if they know a judge is watching over their shoulder.

It did overshadow the tournament, but not the weekend. Not even a little bit. I didn't mean to give that impression.

Dean you would be proud I went the entire Hoth event with all 3 AT-ATs.

Well, no, actually. The AT-AT event at this year's GenCon is going to be totally different from last year. I'm actually planning to incorporate JediCartographer's Echo Base into the event, with some special rules. I figured out why the AT-ATs were getting smashed so easily, and while some of that is by design of the format (damage = points, which means there have to be bonus damage options), some of it was accidental. For example, 4 AT-ATs is 800 points, but the Rebels had 1200 points on the map. The rest of the Empire's forces, the remaining 400 points, were inside the machine. That is a huge disadvantage. JC's map will take care of part of that problem, but I am working on some other changes for this year that will address that, too. I don't want to say too much just yet, because I still haven't worked out all the kinks.

So, will we be seeing Luke HPU and his amazing Demo Charge?