Do you think that this map is gonna be legal? I hope not

Most people seem to be in favor of it.

Join the existing discussion here:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2190&start=0

When I saw the title i thought the map had been anounced as legal.

I thought the same as Homer, maybe someone should edit the subject of the thread to have a question mark on the end?

Fixed, guys

Its a pretty wide open map after playing on it for the first time. Its deffinately going to be all about first strike. Neither side can really hide on the first turn. The right has a few more safe set up squares but not many if you really want to get shots off.

Its main strength is that gambit is fairly balanced but its a shooters map.

I think that's the reason why I'm OK with it being DCI legal, personally. There are a couple of really safe set-up squares on the one side of the map, that I don't even think a towed Boba could get to. Perhaps a Thrawn swap with something like an Amanin Scout or something like that could get to it. But besides that, you have to have an Override piece, and also be somewhat willing to sacrifice it on the first turn for that big first strike.

The balanced center makes the first round or two sort of cautious, but then the following rounds can devolve into a blood bath in the middle, which ends up being quite a bit of fun.

What we really need is a strong shooter's map... oh wait.

I would sooner see this map not added as it is just another nail in the melee coffin... auto loss on how many maps now!?

I really hope it doesn't become DCI legal, not really balanced at all for melees. But knowing WOTC they probably will make legal anyways....

How is it an auto loss? It's nowhere near what Mustafar or Ossus is in the ways of auto-loss for Melee. On Echo Outpost, first turn, you can move all your melee pieces up against the back-side of the bunker. So, without some really long range Thrawn swaps, or R2 tows or such, the opponent won't be able to shoot you there. Then, on following turns, you move into the bunker. From either side of the map, there are squares that you can sit in gambit, and a person outside the bunker cannot shoot at you. Factor in Override, other movement breakers, etc., and it's quite easy to cross the map with a melee squad and engage a shooter squad.

Heck, one of the first games I played on Echo Outpost, the only shooter I had was Luke's Landspeeder (well, some WFFs, but I only used them as melee), and I had to face an entire squad of shooters (Luke HPU, Golan Turret, Hoth Trooper Cannon on a Cart). It was a close game, but I still won.

It might not be the best solution out there, but IMO, it's MUCH better than Ossus or Mustafar.

Any chance someone could post a scan of this? I havent even seen it yet, and with the hoth pack gone and too expensive to bother with it online, i doubt i will.

If you've got Vassal, I think it's loaded up on there now in the latest map pack. Otherwise, with a quick google search, I didn't find it anywhere. I'm sure someone's posted a scan of it over at the WOTC forums at some point.

If you still can't find it later, let me know, I can snap a few digital pictures of my copy.

If you're looking for a pic of the BoH map its on the holocron map list.

http://www.the-holocron.com/index.php?o ... &Itemid=46

Doh...thanks Homer. I knew I had seen it posted online somewhere.

I'd be interested in hearing more details about your reasoning.

So far, it seems like I'm the only one who's a bit hesitant. (See the thread I linked above.)

But keep in mind that (should my recomendation be accepted) Mustafar and Geonosis will be off the list, Korriban will not be added, and the player who loses map choice gets side choice. So shooters might be getting a new favorite map, but they're losing as much or more in the trade.

My gut feeling is Outpost hurts <40 HP commanders and support pieces more than it hurts melee.

Not many melee squads can function without <40 HP pieces. The same is not true with 'ranged' squads.

True to some extent, but then I think of JWM swarms not needing cheap commanders, and how dependant some ranged squads are on Mas or Doombot and it cuts both ways.

OK, if Han Cannon and Broken Boba squads are the most volatile ranged squads, then there's a few things working in favor of Hoth Outpost here. Han Cannon will have a really tough time getting off easy first round shots because they'll have to leave their piece with Override in LOS of the opposite doors. This means the Override piece likely bites it in the first round if the opponent has any sort of Accurate Shot. Broken Boba has it a little easier, since they can tow up Boba to adjacent to the door, Override the far one open, and then let Boba Move away. If the opponent has Override as well, this still creates an issue of possibly losing your override piece on the first turn.

The big difference from Mustafar is that on Echo Base you HAVE to have Override in order to pull off a first round attack like that, and you have to leave that Override piece slightly exposed. Sure, against a Melee swarm, the Override/Boba/Han squad will still have a distinct first round advantage. But as I pointed out before, that will happen on the first round, and pretty much only that round. Otherwise, the ranged player will have to close in and move inside the base in order to engage. On Mustafar, the ranged player gets to shoot away the ENTIRE time the melee player is crossing the map. And if you don't cross the map, you're going to lose. On Echo Base Outpost, you can safely cross to the center of the map and hide out there, forcing the ranged opponent to come to you. There's a HUGE difference in how it plays out compared to Mustafar.

Thanks for the link.

I dont want this to be legal anymore than Ossus. If there is so much as one map that can be abused against melee teams, it effectively kills the abiltiy to play them as you know that you will run into it. ISnt that why we want KMG off the official lists?

JC has proven that you can make maps that are both Melee and shooty friendly. We need more of those, not maps where half your team is left flapping in the wind.

I guess I just fail to see how Echo Base Outpost is THAT shooter friendly. Yes, it allows you to set up first phase shots and potentially kill off <40 HP characters, but then again, poor set-up can allow that to happen on ANY map. Heck, Cloud City allows for that if you're set up anywhere outside on the landing pad. Other maps allow it too, depending on how you set up.

For me, the difference is that other than the very first phase of activations, a shooter squad does not have the huge advantage like they do on Mustafar or Korriban or Ossus. On those two maps, there is pretty much no where that you can get completely out of LOS and still approach the enemy position or gambit. EB Outpost at least gives you that much.