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 Post subject: Lobbin' Ganner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:10 pm 
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So I've been thinking about fun ways to use Ganner, and came up with this:

45 Mara Jade, Jedi
38 Kol Skywalker
29 Ganner Rhysode
26 Kyp Durron
20 Yoda, Force Spirit
9 General Dodonna
16 R7 Astromech Droid x2
9 Mouse Droid x3
6 Ugnaught Demolitionist x2

(198pts. 13 activations)

No Wedge, which is unusual for me, but I wanted to try it. I've been playing more Republic lately so I think I've gotten better at not relying on Evade. Plus Ganner and Mara have Stealth, which will help them against a lot of the big shooters (mainly Dash, Rex, and Cad). Dropping Yoda and the Mice for Wedge and something else is an option, though. To be honest, though, I see the meta going more melee heavy anyway, with the best shooters not having Accurate. Smart play and double Override should keep me relatively safe without Evade.

Dropping the R7s to upgrade Kol to Kyle JBM is another thought. I could also drop Yoda for the upgrade there, or Yoda, an R7, and Kol for Luke FS, Kyle, and another Ugnaught.

I like the idea of haunting Kyp with Yoda so I can levitate him in for the big Force Push. But against a good player I imagine I won't do enough damage to make up for losing 46 points when Kyp dies, which will probably come soon after that. Kol's Push can help set up a good group for Kyp to hit multiple targets, though.

If you can't tell, I'm not really sold on the build. I think it has some strengths, and I definitely think it would be fun to play, but I don't know how competitive it could be. Any suggestions?

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 Post subject: Re: Lobbin' Ganner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:28 pm 
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I think attaching Yoda to Kyp will be fairly popular, but I think it has the same downside as you pointed out: losing 46 points all at once. For that reason, I would probably be tempted to attach Yoda to Kol. You lose out on the Renewal 1, but Kol has MOTF 2, which means he could make very good use of the Mettle. Sure, Kyp won't get to use Force Push 5 right off the bat, but he could use Yoda's FPs in Round 4 for a Push, which is likely about the earliest you'd really plan to use it anyways. Then Kyp could use his own 4 FPs for Lightning and Assault however he wanted early on.

So, that might be somewhat of a better option. The only other real way to pull it off would be to haunt Kyp, and just be very careful with him. Make sure Mara and Kol are nearby to make your opponent pay for coming after Kyp. Or maybe work a Bodyguard into the squad somehow. You could probably drop an R7 and a Mouse for a Human Bodyguard without affecting your build too badly.

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 Post subject: Re: Lobbin' Ganner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:26 pm 
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you can free up 10 points immedeatley by removing Yoda for Luke FS.
I don't see any reason you need the force battery. Also, with no defensive ability like evade, mettle goes down a bit so you might not even need Luke.

Kol is good but he doesn't help you that much. No riposte is a big deal in this meta. I think Shado makes a better addition to your build because he is more effective against gallops and strafes with riposte and prescision.

I think you'd be better served with Dash than Kyp. Even now i don't think you can rely so heavily on melee without having a decent shooter and no-one plays Mara as a shooter although Ganner might change that.

I share your apprehension of this build. I think you've just added all the best costed pieces from the faction (bar yoda) without considering the holes you've left open; no disruptive which is a massive advantage the NR have, no riposte or attacks on the opponents turn, no range support. Your basically hoping you can get right in the middle of your opponent and take them out before they shred you and i'm not sure you will be able to do that.

its not what Ganner excels at IMO.

After my comments i think this may be what your after
--Ganner Hammer--
48 Shado Vao
45 Mara Jade, Jedi
29 Ganner Rhysode
28 Dash Rendar, Renegade Smuggler
10 Luke Skywalker, Force Spirit
9 General Dodonna
16 R7 Astromech Droid x2
6 Mouse Droid x2
9 Ugnaught Demolitionist x3

(200pts. 13 activations)

Great range with Levitation with both Shado and Mara. Luke can haunt but i might be tempted to take him out for Jagged as Dash will improve so mcuh more.

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 Post subject: Re: Lobbin' Ganner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:47 pm 
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Could also just drop on R7 and a Mouse Droid for Jag. You've got no CEs to boost.

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 Post subject: Re: Lobbin' Ganner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:03 pm 
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Hmmm, I like that a lot. Shado is a fig that I've always liked but haven't found a competitive place for lately. And I would definitely drop the R7 and Mouse for Jagged, and probably the other Mouse for another Ugnaught. Or maybe just drop another Ugnaught and up Shado to Kyle, although I like Shado's defensiveness in this build. That also would cut me down to 10 activations, which is pretty poor. Might be able to drop Luke at that point for a few more acts.

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 Post subject: Re: Lobbin' Ganner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:15 pm 
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LoboStele wrote:
Could also just drop on R7 and a Mouse Droid for Jag. You've got no CEs to boost.


mice are good thudbug/spit resistance and make good target blockers. they arn't in for CE boosting

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 Post subject: Re: Lobbin' Ganner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:34 pm 
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--Ganner's Heavy Lifting--
54 Kyle Katarn, Jedi Battlemaster
45 Mara Jade, Jedi
29 Ganner Rhysode
26 Kyp Durron
23 General Wedge Antilles
9 General Dodonna
12 Ugnaught Demolitionist x4

(198pts. 10 activations)

That's what I consider to be the basic Ganner build. You can change Kyp for other things, and Dodonna isn't totally necessary either. Further, you can drop Wedge in a Ganner build fairly easily, which gives you other options as well. But I figure this is a good base, and most competitive squads in the NR will look something like it.

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 Post subject: Re: Lobbin' Ganner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:49 pm 
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Mara and Kyle are great bases for Ganner builds but i don't think they are exclusives. I can see builds without Mara, i can see builds without Kyle but most builds would probably have one or the other.

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 Post subject: Re: Lobbin' Ganner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:42 pm 
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While we're discussing the New Republic Meta, this is a squad I have come up with that I think will perform well in most situations which happens to follow suit with the squads in this thread:

--Tossing beats--
54 Kyle Katarn, Jedi Battlemaster
48 Shado Vao
29 Ganner Rhysode
26 Kyp Durron
23 General Wedge Antilles
9 General Dodonna
9 Ugnaught Demolitionist x3

(198pts. 9 activations)

You can also exchange Shado Vao for Han GH if your concerned about initiative issues and if you want to really up disruptive. The cunning/accurate shooter is nice to have too. At that point, Wedge kind of looses some utilization, so that is a dilemma you'll have to judge the meta on.


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 Post subject: Re: Lobbin' Ganner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:26 pm 
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fingersandteeth wrote:
Mara and Kyle are great bases for Ganner builds but i don't think they are exclusives. I can see builds without Mara, i can see builds without Kyle but most builds would probably have one or the other.


Yeah, that's what I meant to add as well. You won't go changing all the pieces, just fiddle around with the options.

Personally, I'm more likely to drop Kyle than Mara, but I know others would go the other way.

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 Post subject: Re: Lobbin' Ganner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:13 pm 
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I like to run wedge and a tbsv. I think that Kyle and Kol are just fun with GMA.

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 Post subject: Re: Lobbin' Ganner
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:23 pm 
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Alright, so I've revisited building with Ganner again lately, and came up with a far superior version (aka, an actually good version, lol).

54 Kyle Katarn, Jedi Battlemaster
45 Mara Jade, Jedi
29 Ganner Rhysode
28 Dash Rendar, Renegade Smuggler
10 Jagged Fel
9 General Dodonna
8 R7 Astromech Droid
5 Caamasi Noble
3 Mouse Droid
9 Ugnaught Demolitionist x3

(200pts. 12 activations)

3 big threats with Ganner helping out. Still no wedge for the reasons I mentioned earlier. An alternative is dropping the R7 and change the Noble for another Ugg and bring in Luke FS, but I don't generally have a big issue with running out of FP so I think the disruptive is more useful. I'm just 5-3 with it so far, but one of those losses was a bad fluke (full health Kyle got crit TWICE by GMLS on Djem So's =( ) and another one was just kind of screwing around with it on Vassal and I made some positioning errors.

Thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: Lobbin' Ganner
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:52 pm 
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billiv15 wrote:
fingersandteeth wrote:
Mara and Kyle are great bases for Ganner builds but i don't think they are exclusives. I can see builds without Mara, i can see builds without Kyle but most builds would probably have one or the other.


Yeah, that's what I meant to add as well. You won't go changing all the pieces, just fiddle around with the options.

Personally, I'm more likely to drop Kyle than Mara, but I know others would go the other way.



Why are you more likely to drop Kyle for Mara? I can't really say that I disagree with you (trading 120 damage at +16 versus 60 at +14 is rather black and white) I just was curious as to your reasoning.


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 Post subject: Re: Lobbin' Ganner
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:38 pm 
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AdmiralSlowbar wrote:
billiv15 wrote:
fingersandteeth wrote:
Mara and Kyle are great bases for Ganner builds but i don't think they are exclusives. I can see builds without Mara, i can see builds without Kyle but most builds would probably have one or the other.


Yeah, that's what I meant to add as well. You won't go changing all the pieces, just fiddle around with the options.

Personally, I'm more likely to drop Kyle than Mara, but I know others would go the other way.



Why are you more likely to drop Kyle for Mara? I can't really say that I disagree with you (trading 120 damage at +16 versus 60 at +14 is rather black and white) I just was curious as to your reasoning.


Probably for the reason you posted: Mara has much greater damage potential, and she can also fill the role of an adequate shooter. She has Stealth, so can protect herself against many of the popular shooters around (Cad, Dash, Rex). She being non-melee is one of the big reasons IMO as to why she would be included before KKJBM.


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 Post subject: Re: Lobbin' Ganner
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:57 pm 
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I made a version using Ganner... BH would love this squad, but it has its surprises and it's tough to navigate around lower HP pieces

--Ganner's Will--
45 Mara Jade, Jedi
29 Ganner Rhysode
26 Kyp Durron
23 Anakin Solo
23 General Wedge Antilles
18 Twi'lek Black Sun Vigo
10 Luke Skywalker, Force Spirit
9 General Dodonna
8 R7 Astromech Droid
3 Mouse Droid
6 Ugnaught Demolitionist x2

(200pts. 12 activations)

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 Post subject: Re: Lobbin' Ganner
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:16 pm 
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sorry ken but you have way too much tech going on. GMA evade with Ganner when mara dies your done for. I dont see how your back up can clean up after she does a assault or two. Yes she is really deadly but I dont see how kyp and Anakin can clean up.

Ok Ken but really i think your better off with out wedge and TBSV. I understand your trying to make up for low hp with GMA/EVade wont work.work in Dash I would think? What about Denger HK not Wedge and TBSV or Kol. For this I am going to say Ganner and TBSV are tech pieces or they should be your 4-6 numbered attacker. In this they Have to be your 3rd or 4th. If Mara dies even if kyp/Anakin die they have to be beats. It has power but its all most 100 points of tech if you talk about Ganner and TBSV as tech. For 100 points you have 90 damage. Then the rest of the squad Mara 120,Kyp 80,Anakin 60. The squad can do damage but once mara is dead or Zuck sticks her for a round she is dead. I think going kyp or anakin would be a good start. If your goign to go EVade TBSV you have to make it up somewhere and I dont see where your making up the power and staying alive. Yes wedge is good vs Shooters but what if your going up against melee. GMA for really only ganner and kyp. Yeah Ganner gets mobile when he moves someone. I am just not sold on the whole idea.


Echo I like your new Version of the squad.


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 Post subject: Re: Lobbin' Ganner
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:56 am 
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The trouble with Ganner squads is they lack either power or activations/tech. Usually they don't have enough of both.

Squads that have Mara, Ganner, and Dash really don't need Wedge IMO, he's just wasted points if you want them to not take ranged damage then position them better or throw something with Evade out front.

If GenCon/Regionals were tomorrow I would play this if I played NR probably:

Kyle CI 46
Mara 45
Ganner 29
Dash 28
Lobot 27
Jagged 10
Dodonna 9
4 points left (Gran for door opening, Mouse/Ugo)
199/200


I feel Kyle CI is a very underrated piece both in general and in this meta. Mara, Ganner, Dash, Jagged, all with Duelist is surprisingly effective against minis with a 12 or lower attack in melee.

Kyle has Disruptive, 140 HP (same as Kyle JBM and more than Kol/Shado), Block/Riposte with MotF 2, and of course the afforementioned duelist.

He can take down a Lancer first turn with his two FPs if it was pawned to do an opening strafe, something that is pretty impressive as well.

I also have tried a Kyle CI, Han GH, Dash/Ganner version, it wasn't bad overall, just lacked some damage. Mara definitely remedies that however.


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 Post subject: Re: Lobbin' Ganner
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:37 pm 
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joelker41 wrote:
He can take down a Lancer first turn with his two FPs if it was pawned to do an opening strafe, something that is pretty impressive as well.


Not necessarily true. Kyle's Disruptive means the Lancer only makes 1 attack against him, thus you only get 1 Riposte. So, a smart player will still get 2 attacks from the Lancer on each of your pieces. So, Kyle's MOTF2 doesn't really make THAT much difference against a Lancer squad, as Kyle JBM has Riposte as well. I still like JBM better in almost every scenario because he is more well-rounded overall. CI is great as an anti-melee/interference piece, but JBM just has so much more general utility against a wide range of squads. I'm not 100% sold one way or the other, and it's probably just a personal preference thing.

What you built there is actually almost identical to something me and buddy James had thrown together last week.

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 Post subject: Re: Lobbin' Ganner
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:39 am 
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the other reason Kyle JBM is better is because you can give him evade.

Some of the best pieces in the meta are shooters. Han Smug hasn't gone anywhere, neither has rex, dash, Can Bane and people are still happy running the speeder on the throne room. Not to mention the possibilities of Twin Merc, Durge JH and the like.

The one of the strongest traits of the NR are double evades or mettle evades (both?!?!) on strong disruptive pieces. Your forced to base them to assure dmg but then the piece loses all its CE's (so no cannons, or granted twins, opportunist, momentum etc etc). Bringing in CI means you lose that possibility and it takes away a lot.

I would not fear the CI build if i was a rebel speeder/smuggler cannon squad, a JBM/wedge build though would give the rebels fits.

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 Post subject: Re: Lobbin' Ganner
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:10 am 
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fingersandteeth wrote:

I would not fear the CI build if i was a rebel speeder/smuggler cannon squad, a JBM/wedge build though would give the rebels fits.


I am also not debating who is the better piece, JBM is FAR superior to CI, you will never hear me say different. I was just saying if one is running a Mara/Ganner/Dash version and you weren't using say Shado and still wanted Disruptive, Kyle CI is a good choice.

Overall I agree that the best NR versions probably have Kyle JBM in them, just because him plus wedge is arguably the most annoying 77 points one would have to get rid of on a competitive battlefield vs much of the meta.

So no debate from me on which Kyle is better, I just believe that he is a pretty good piece, and if JBM didn't exist people might be singing a different tune on Kyle CI.


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