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 Post subject: The Red & the Black (& Blue & Green)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:51 am 
Master of the Order
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I've enjoyed running Bobble-head Vader and new Bossk in dynamic duo a couple times now, and thought it would be fun (and potentially deadly) to play them together with Thrawn.

--The Red & the Black (& Blue & Green)--
71 Darth Vader, Legacy of the Force
34 Kir Kanos
32 Thrawn (Mitth'raw'nuruodo)
29 Bossk, Trandoshan Hunter
8 Mas Amedda
8 R7 Astromech Droid
12 Rodian Brute x4
6 Ugnaught Demolitionist x2

(200pts. 12 activations)

Bossk with Extra Attack (plus his Stun Mortar) can fit in as both ranged/adjacent threat and synergizes well with Thrawn's CE. But is he enough as a "shooter"? I have Kir Kanos in here as he is certainly a significant threat with Extra/Twin, and Force Sense could be very helpful to Bossk and Vader (Grip).

Somehow, the underbelly of this swap outfit just seems too vulnerable. I suppose that comes with the territory, but I could drop Kanos to get more range support and acts (a Keldor etc).

Any thoughts on if this would hold up, or suggestions for strengthening?
Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: The Red & the Black (& Blue & Green)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:59 am 
Big Bad Brad
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Yeah, I'm not seeing the point of swap in this squad with Kir Kanos. You give him extra but most of the time he is getting swapped out for Vader (who does less possible damage) before he ever is able to get in anything but maybe a twin.

Oh, I guess I glazed over the Rodian Brutes down at the bottom. My bad. But you're right, it does all seem soft somehow doesn't it.

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 Post subject: Re: The Red & the Black (& Blue & Green)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:59 pm 
Master of the Order
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The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
Yeah, I'm not seeing the point of swap in this squad with Kir Kanos. You give him extra but most of the time he is getting swapped out for Vader (who does less possible damage) before he ever is able to get in anything but maybe a twin.

Oh, I guess I glazed over the Rodian Brutes down at the bottom. My bad. But you're right, it does all seem soft somehow doesn't it.


Yeah, it just does for some reason. Can't put my finger on it, other than the obvious Strafe/Gallop.

Kir Kanos maxes out +21/120
Vader +20/90 (plus Grip when someone else is taking the front lines, and is defensively a tank)
Bossk +18/110 adjacent, +18/60 from range
All the above making ALL attacks at full bonuses = 330 max damage output, not counting lucky swings from the brutes

Just thinking I might get better overall performance by dropping Kanos (or Bossk) and shoring up the support with more attackers/acts. Lord Vader would be much better attacking on the move than Legacy, but he loses a lot defensively, and the other two lose some potential attacks, but gain damage on both ends of the round... choices, choices :P


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 Post subject: Re: The Red & the Black (& Blue & Green)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:12 pm 
Big Bad Brad
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Maybe take out swap all together??

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 Post subject: Re: The Red & the Black (& Blue & Green)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:31 pm 
Master of the Order
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Yeah, I always have a tough time running Vader LOTF over Lord Vader. The one nice advantage there, is that with Lord Vader, your Kanos and Bossk would always be attacking at 30 damage with either Advantageous or Opportunist. You gain some damage output with Vader in trade for less attacks from Bossk/Kanos. Tough call, honestly.

I think part of why it seems 'soft' is likely the lack of defensive options. Neither Kanos or Bossk have a way to protect themselves from enemy attacks, so they are 100% dependent on the swap in order to stay alive. At least Vader LOTF has LS Reflect, but I personally hate relying on that too. Not really sure what to suggest instead though. Zuckuss instead of Kanos might not be a bad choice. Intuition + Swapping can be fun, and with Zuckuss having Double Attack, you might be able to stick a key piece into place, then run up a Brute so you can swap Vader in adjacent. The other problem I often have with Vader LOTF is in using his Triple. Lord Vader gives you the 18 square swap range, while you only have 12 square range with Vader Legacy. So having Zuckuss to lock down a piece so you can pounce on it might help a bit.

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 Post subject: Re: The Red & the Black (& Blue & Green)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:48 pm 
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LoboStele wrote:
Yeah, I always have a tough time running Vader LOTF over Lord Vader. The one nice advantage there, is that with Lord Vader, your Kanos and Bossk would always be attacking at 30 damage with either Advantageous or Opportunist. You gain some damage output with Vader in trade for less attacks from Bossk/Kanos. Tough call, honestly.

I think part of why it seems 'soft' is likely the lack of defensive options. Neither Kanos or Bossk have a way to protect themselves from enemy attacks, so they are 100% dependent on the swap in order to stay alive. At least Vader LOTF has LS Reflect, but I personally hate relying on that too. Not really sure what to suggest instead though. Zuckuss instead of Kanos might not be a bad choice. Intuition + Swapping can be fun, and with Zuckuss having Double Attack, you might be able to stick a key piece into place, then run up a Brute so you can swap Vader in adjacent. The other problem I often have with Vader LOTF is in using his Triple. Lord Vader gives you the 18 square swap range, while you only have 12 square range with Vader Legacy. So having Zuckuss to lock down a piece so you can pounce on it might help a bit.


Yeah, you are right on the money about the defense of the other two. They don't have any!
I liked it because it was different, but different doesn't equal better :P

Zuck could be interesting, and on the balance LV is probably an equal or better trade.

Celestial's suggestion (forget swap) could have some merit also. Lots of things to consider.

I appreciate the input guys :)


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