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 Post subject: Re: Return of the King
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:50 pm 
Dark Lord of the Sith
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I think working in a jawa Scavenger might be a great idea. It will just give you a good shooter other than Dash/Zuckuss. I still feel Panaka is just out of place. I would take a JS over Jax any day.


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 Post subject: Re: Return of the King
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:13 pm 
Master of the Order
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I don't know....for 3 points more, you get 60 more HP? Jax has his uses. Granted, the Jawa Scavenger can be solid though if against opposing Droids or R2-Astromech, but beyond that, they're only a medicore piece, IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: Return of the King
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:23 pm 
Mandalore
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If we are considering Optimization here can we discuss GOWK? Lately <since his unbanning> in the games I have seen GOWK played in he hasn't been much of a concern. In fact he is fairly easily defeated by a Jedi Weaponmaster, or other cheap Jedi. <Ferus Olin certainly fits the bill> As I see it there are two pieces who could easily be considered as just as viable in this build as GOWK if we are dropping Ferus Olin.

1. If you Drop Ferus you need a melee piece other than GOWK to handle an opposing GOWK. I see Two terrific options in either Grand Master Yoda, or Master Kota.

55 Grand Master Yoda/Master Kota
35 Zuckuss, Bounty Hunter
28 Dash Rendar, Renegade Smuggler
26 Jedi Weapon Master
23 Captain Panaka
09 Rodian Brute x3
09 R2, Astromech Droid
09 Ugnaught Demolitionist x3
06 Mouse Droid x2

This of course allows the squad to be more susceptible to a ranged barrage, however it improves the Ranged damage ability with Yoda and gives you the swap and Bomb Option with Kota. Also GOWK dependent squads almost definitely fall to either Yoda or Kota Varients, as GOWK cannot stand toe to toe with Yoda, and Kota, while closer I believe still pulls it out. Most of the benefit from the commander effects stays in tact also which is of benefit.

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 Post subject: Re: Return of the King
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:39 pm 
Name Calling Internet Bully
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Luke_Skywalker wrote:
This of course allows the squad to be more susceptible to a ranged barrage,
That's the critical issue, and I doubt Dennis will be favorable to that because of this particular issue.

Luke_Skywalker wrote:
however it improves the Ranged damage ability with Yoda and gives you the swap and Bomb Option with Kota.
barely. the Bomb is a gimmick, that generally gets off once per game, and it's easy to keep it from doing too much damage. Yoda does have more range, but much less ranged defense and the +1/1 is signficant. At best it would be a meta decision, but as I said above, I'm pretty sure Dennis already said he was running GOWK to deal with range like the Snowspeeder. Neither Kota or Yoda are good against it.

Luke_Skywalker wrote:
Also GOWK dependent squads almost definitely fall to either Yoda or Kota Varients,
Hardly. I agreed with most of what you said, but this is not accurate. "almost definately" is a very far exaggeration.

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 Post subject: Re: Return of the King
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:47 pm 
Master of the Order
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Interesting suggestion Carl, and worth discussing (though as Bill said I am more concerned about ranged damage tearing through my figs as the result of pieces like Mara, Jedi, Snowspeeder, Rex, and Dash than about melee stuff right now).

Also, if choosing one of those alternatives, the first thing I would want to do is fit Mas back in there, as there would now be 2 range-6 commanders on the squad.

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 Post subject: Re: Return of the King
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:10 pm 
Mandalore
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As I said I thought it worth mentioning that these other two pieces seem to fit the same slot. Yoda looks especially tempting when panaka is dropped instead of Ferus <anyone made to think of Beuler?> It seems to me that while A Lancer could be a concern to GOWK it would be almost an Afterthought to Yoda, I don't see the snowspeeder as being a huge issue to Yoda as it could take a VERY long time for the speeder to bring down Yoda, what would concern me more is Cad-Bane, and Cad Bane specifically, as Dash, Rex and other 4 shot pieces will have lots of difficulty hitting Yoda. Certainly Yoda has a very good defence to mara jade :mj: in his force defence. and his Lightsaber defence allows him lots of staying power. I really think that Yoda is a better all-Round defensive piece than GOWK. OF course if your meta is running a lot of Ranged high damage than GOWK is the way to go, negate that damage.

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 Post subject: Re: Return of the King
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:14 am 
Master of the Order
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I don't know....Yoda can be a solid counter to GOWK in a 1-on-1 scenario, but it's just SO easy to deny the Ataru Style Mastery. In that case, it comes down to GOWK's Double Attack vs. Yoda's Double Attack. And while GOWK can SSM away any ranged attacks that come at him while Yoda is attacking, Yoda can only shrug away one attack per turn. So, if you have GOWK + Dash vs. Yoda + Dash, I would put my money on GOWK almost everytime, because Dash will just have a beastly difficult time getting damage through on GOWK.

I certainly think Yoda is a solid piece, but at the national meta level, I think GOWK is the safer bet.

I do tend to agree with Bill here, that Panaka doesn't seem THAT necessary to me. On the other hand, I've only played against Zuckuss 2-3 times so far, so I may be underestimating his impact. We've got a 150 game at the LGS this week, so I'm hoping to see if he makes much of a splash.

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 Post subject: Re: Return of the King
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:52 pm 
Guardian of the Old Republic
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Grand Moff Boris wrote:
Interesting suggestion Carl, and worth discussing (though as Bill said I am more concerned about ranged damage tearing through my figs as the result of pieces like Mara, Jedi, Snowspeeder, Rex, and Dash than about melee stuff right now).

Also, if choosing one of those alternatives, the first thing I would want to do is fit Mas back in there, as there would now be 2 range-6 commanders on the squad.


Well if we are talking national meta melee is far more prevalent in the last year than it has been in years. GOWK is still strong but when many top squads now are republic melee, GMA NR, and the complete revamp of the Seperatist faction Melee with Whorm, GOWK is all well and good but shooters aren't quite as powerful as before when goood players armed with Gen Skywalker, YoBuck, etc in 200 is becoming better with every set.


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