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 Post subject: Old Squad with a Tweak
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:24 pm 
Mandalore
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--Luke's Imps--
55 Darth Vader, Scourge of the Jedi
32 Thrawn (Mitth'raw'nuruodo)
18 Moff Nyna Calixte
34 Storm Commando x2
13 Czerka Scientist
11 Admiral Ozzel
8 Mas Amedda
20 Gran Raider x5
9 Ugnaught Demolitionist x3

(200pts. 16 activations)

Basically this is Super Stealthed Black and Blue, Out Activate, Swap Kill. Commandos Sitting Still are +10 for 30/x4 Map of choice is Hardboard, and of course I MUST keep the Czerka out of sight. How does a squad like this compete today? How do you think it would fare?

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 Post subject: Re: Old Squad with a Tweak
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:48 pm 
Hand of the Sith
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Luke_Skywalker wrote:
--Luke's Imps--
55 Darth Vader, Scourge of the Jedi
32 Thrawn (Mitth'raw'nuruodo)
18 Moff Nyna Calixte
34 Storm Commando x2
13 Czerka Scientist
11 Admiral Ozzel
8 Mas Amedda
20 Gran Raider x5
9 Ugnaught Demolitionist x3

(200pts. 16 activations)

Basically this is Super Stealthed Black and Blue, Out Activate, Swap Kill. Commandos Sitting Still are +10 for 30/x4 Map of choice is Hardboard, and of course I MUST keep the Czerka out of sight. How does a squad like this compete today? How do you think it would fare?


maybe its just my bad luck, but ive always had problems with the storm commandos actually hitting things. Vader has limited force points, but makes up for it with jedi hunter and opportunist.

I actually like this squad despite the storm commando's.. but like i said, they hate me; the 4 attacks with them should help mitigate that.

Maybe drop 2 Grans for a R7 so u have override, as u have plenty of pieces to swap into.

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 Post subject: Re: Old Squad with a Tweak
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:56 pm 
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Well +10 is lower than I would like. I truly was thinking about dropping that thrawn for the original and dropping one of the SC's Entirely and filling out with more activations. Then when I win init with him I can light up for +13 for 30 4 times, that is significantly better. But I thought that the consitency of the new thrawn had something to add, also with Vader A single attack in melee could be answered with 80 points of return damage. That is worth considering.

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 Post subject: Re: Old Squad with a Tweak
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:31 pm 
Customizer Extrodinaire
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I agree, one of the biggest downfalls of Vader is his limited force. I don't see a way to fit Palpy in there, so I guess it will have to do. Were you planning on using the Grans for swap fodder? I might suggest swapping them for Imperial Digs as they are much easier to keep alive for multiple swaps.

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 Post subject: Re: Old Squad with a Tweak
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:02 am 
Hand of the Sith
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Luke_Skywalker wrote:
Well +10 is lower than I would like. I truly was thinking about dropping that thrawn for the original and dropping one of the SC's Entirely and filling out with more activations. Then when I win init with him I can light up for +13 for 30 4 times, that is significantly better. But I thought that the consitency of the new thrawn had something to add, also with Vader A single attack in melee could be answered with 80 points of return damage. That is worth considering.


I think Id rather keep mitth'raw'nuruodo than use the old thrawn personally.. i like the +3/+3 of the old thrawn and ysalimiri if im running a pure SS build, but for yours id rather have the opportunist as u have ozzel for pacing. Id retool the squad with some Shadow Stormtroopers in place of the storm commandos and czerka.. you dont get 4 attacks, but they end up being +16's for 30 with opportunist and careful shot.. so thts also a consideration.. Personally id go with less attacks that are consistently hitting rather than multiple shots, that are less likely to hit... Also You could keep the Czerka if u like as they would gain jolt.

So if i were to rebuild your squad it would probably look something like this.

199 Pts.
17 Acts.

55 Darth Vader, Scourge of the Jedi
32 Thrawn (Mitth'raw'nuruodo)
18 Moff Nyna Calixte
39 Shadow Stormtrooper x3
11 Admiral Ozzel
8 Mas Ameeda
27 Lobot
9 Ugnaught Demolitionist x3

Reinforcements:

20 Gran Raider x5

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 Post subject: Re: Old Squad with a Tweak
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:37 am 
Name Calling Internet Bully
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I'm not sure what the new twist is here, but I love Opp thrawn and Vader Scourge and have used it a lot.

I don't think the SS is the way to go, nor would I be using SCs in this case, and Ozzel can be a problem, although if you learn to work around him, use him as a swapper and can get your opponent to off him or disrupt him it works. I ran a squad like this at Gencon with Cade Sky instead of two SCs and Nyna and went 3-1. I dominated a Snowspeeder build on Teth with it, to the shock of the opponent and his teammates (was in the team tournament).

I made a new version with Cad Bane, which will be fun as well. Ozzel I can take or leave with these, as he helps you in many match ups, but absolutely loses the game if you are up against another act control squad that out activates you. I developed strategies that allowed me to compete well enough in those cases that I was willing to run Ozzel in it, but it was my one loss.

My question is, why do you think your SCs need SS? They aren't going to be power shooter anything at +10 anyway. The only way they are going to work is if you can keep them moving and swapping and protected by Vader. Problem is, Vader scourge isn't a great interference piece in particular. I like the Shadow variant better, but I would still simple drop Nyna altogether and get some more shooters. 7-8 storms with Opp thrawn makes a much better swap aresenal and shooting arsenal than 2 SS 40hp guys. That's why I prefered one power shooter in these squads, and Cade worked great. Cad should work equally well, even though you lose heal, you gain greater mobile, stealth and evade, meaning you can change a lot of how you swap around.

Here's the two squads:

--Darth Cade's Big Opportunity--
61 Cade Skywalker, Bounty Hunter
55 Darth Vader, Scourge of the Jedi
32 Thrawn (Mitth'raw'nuruodo)
11 Admiral Ozzel
8 Mas Amedda
10 Raxus Prime Trooper x2
8 Gran Raider x2
6 Mouse Droid x2
9 Ugnaught Demolitionist x3

(200pts. 14 activations)

--Darth Cad's Big Opportunity--
55 Darth Vader, Scourge of the Jedi
54 Cad Bane
32 Thrawn (Mitth'raw'nuruodo)
11 Admiral Ozzel
8 Mas Amedda
8 R7 Astromech Droid
5 Caamasi Noble
10 Raxus Prime Trooper x2
8 Gran Raider x2
3 Mouse Droid
6 Ugnaught Demolitionist x2

(200pts. 14 activations)

You will note, Ozzel is in each of these, but you can equally replace him with 2 more shooters. I've run it both ways and both have different strengths, in particular, the Cad version without Ozzel is particularly nasty. Here's what it looks like.

--Darth Cad's Lesser Opportunity--
55 Darth Vader, Scourge of the Jedi
54 Cad Bane
32 Thrawn (Mitth'raw'nuruodo)
8 Mas Amedda
5 Caamasi Noble
20 Raxus Prime Trooper x4
10 Stormtrooper x2
4 Gran Raider
3 Mouse Droid
9 Ugnaught Demolitionist x3

(200pts. 16 activations)

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 Post subject: Re: Old Squad with a Tweak
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:22 pm 
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Last time I had played this squad was a Pre-kotor Build that had the original thrawn and Lord Vader.

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 Post subject: Re: Old Squad with a Tweak
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:26 pm 
Hand of the Sith
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billiv15 wrote:
I'm not sure what the new twist is here, but I love Opp thrawn and Vader Scourge and have used it a lot.

I don't think the SS is the way to go, nor would I be using SCs in this case, and Ozzel can be a problem, although if you learn to work around him, use him as a swapper and can get your opponent to off him or disrupt him it works. I ran a squad like this at Gencon with Cade Sky instead of two SCs and Nyna and went 3-1. I dominated a Snowspeeder build on Teth with it, to the shock of the opponent and his teammates (was in the team tournament).

I made a new version with Cad Bane, which will be fun as well. Ozzel I can take or leave with these, as he helps you in many match ups, but absolutely loses the game if you are up against another act control squad that out activates you. I developed strategies that allowed me to compete well enough in those cases that I was willing to run Ozzel in it, but it was my one loss.

My question is, why do you think your SCs need SS? They aren't going to be power shooter anything at +10 anyway. The only way they are going to work is if you can keep them moving and swapping and protected by Vader. Problem is, Vader scourge isn't a great interference piece in particular. I like the Shadow variant better, but I would still simple drop Nyna altogether and get some more shooters. 7-8 storms with Opp thrawn makes a much better swap aresenal and shooting arsenal than 2 SS 40hp guys. That's why I prefered one power shooter in these squads, and Cade worked great. Cad should work equally well, even though you lose heal, you gain greater mobile, stealth and evade, meaning you can change a lot of how you swap around.

Here's the two squads:

--Darth Cade's Big Opportunity--
61 Cade Skywalker, Bounty Hunter
55 Darth Vader, Scourge of the Jedi
32 Thrawn (Mitth'raw'nuruodo)
11 Admiral Ozzel
8 Mas Amedda
10 Raxus Prime Trooper x2
8 Gran Raider x2
6 Mouse Droid x2
9 Ugnaught Demolitionist x3

(200pts. 14 activations)

--Darth Cad's Big Opportunity--
55 Darth Vader, Scourge of the Jedi
54 Cad Bane
32 Thrawn (Mitth'raw'nuruodo)
11 Admiral Ozzel
8 Mas Amedda
8 R7 Astromech Droid
5 Caamasi Noble
10 Raxus Prime Trooper x2
8 Gran Raider x2
3 Mouse Droid
6 Ugnaught Demolitionist x2

(200pts. 14 activations)

You will note, Ozzel is in each of these, but you can equally replace him with 2 more shooters. I've run it both ways and both have different strengths, in particular, the Cad version without Ozzel is particularly nasty. Here's what it looks like.

--Darth Cad's Lesser Opportunity--
55 Darth Vader, Scourge of the Jedi
54 Cad Bane
32 Thrawn (Mitth'raw'nuruodo)
8 Mas Amedda
5 Caamasi Noble
20 Raxus Prime Trooper x4
10 Stormtrooper x2
4 Gran Raider
3 Mouse Droid
9 Ugnaught Demolitionist x3

(200pts. 16 activations)


Uh oh, Bill posted.. ignore my fixes lol.

Seriously tho, I am curious as to why your using stormtroopers and raxus prime troopers.. I can understand that they get opportunist so their at a 9 to hit for 20, but It seems like it would require alot more skill to keep them alive as I make placement errors alot, and SS is more forgiving in that regard. The reason I ask as they are fragile with their 10 HP and have to stand still to shoot. Im guessing its more for damage output, since most other swappers lack that (ie: Grans, Dignitaries, Caamasi)

Thx in advance for the input, as I probably sound like a noob for asking.. No comments on that please :P lmao

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 Post subject: Re: Old Squad with a Tweak
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:23 pm 
Name Calling Internet Bully
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Sith_Asassyn wrote:
Seriously tho, I am curious as to why your using stormtroopers and raxus prime troopers.. I can understand that they get opportunist so their at a 9 to hit for 20, but It seems like it would require alot more skill to keep them alive as I make placement errors alot, and SS is more forgiving in that regard. The reason I ask as they are fragile with their 10 HP and have to stand still to shoot. Im guessing its more for damage output, since most other swappers lack that (ie: Grans, Dignitaries, Caamasi)

Thx in advance for the input, as I probably sound like a noob for asking.. No comments on that please :P lmao


Because you will need attackers. Swap Gimmicks alone do not beat a good player. You need to have ways to take out opposing scrub screens, things to do back up damage, and so on. Swap squads today need to be different than in the past, they aren't all about swapping. You use swapping to set up attacks and keep your big guns alive as long as possible, but in today's game, that isn't always possible. You also need to be able to use your scrubs to make attacks and occasionally combine fire.

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 Post subject: Re: Old Squad with a Tweak
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:27 am 
Hand of the Sith
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billiv15 wrote:
Sith_Asassyn wrote:
Seriously tho, I am curious as to why your using stormtroopers and raxus prime troopers.. I can understand that they get opportunist so their at a 9 to hit for 20, but It seems like it would require alot more skill to keep them alive as I make placement errors alot, and SS is more forgiving in that regard. The reason I ask as they are fragile with their 10 HP and have to stand still to shoot. Im guessing its more for damage output, since most other swappers lack that (ie: Grans, Dignitaries, Caamasi)

Thx in advance for the input, as I probably sound like a noob for asking.. No comments on that please :P lmao


Because you will need attackers. Swap Gimmicks alone do not beat a good player. You need to have ways to take out opposing scrub screens, things to do back up damage, and so on. Swap squads today need to be different than in the past, they aren't all about swapping. You use swapping to set up attacks and keep your big guns alive as long as possible, but in today's game, that isn't always possible. You also need to be able to use your scrubs to make attacks and occasionally combine fire.


Okay, I understand now.. thx for replying Bill.

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 Post subject: Re: Old Squad with a Tweak
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:54 am 
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You could drop Nyna and filler for Jolee. Super Stealth is nice but it may be a decent investment.


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