billiv15 wrote:
Leia isn't going to survive anywhere near Luke. Nor is Cade. Heck, against most squads, they aren't even going to survive as far away from Luke as possible.
I suggest you guys play test this a little more. It doesn't work. Cade, Luke, Leia is actually worse than Luke, Leia.
All eggs in one basket builds are very hard to run. I would argue, without swapping, it's virtually impossible to make it consistent enough to be a winner.
This isn't just about play style preferences Fool. It's about what will win consistently. Luke and Mara as the OP built it, or your suggestion of Luke and Leia instead.
I think Luke Mara is a vastly superior build. I think you guys are missing one critical thing here. Luke doesn't just have to kill one opposing piece to be decent. He has to kill at least 115pts, or survive until time with a points lead. Neither of those is easy to pull off, without swapping. You need more damage output in most cases over Luke getting to reroll failed saves.
I guess it comes from having played against Luke now multiple times and being a combined 8-0 against him in 150 (2 games) and 200 (6 games). It's actually an interesting playtest figure, because you really can't do much to run him wrong. There is strategy in how to use his FPs, when to charge and so forth, but the weaknesses of the squad is pretty consistent regardless of what support he has, and so the way to play against it is also pretty consistent. I have beaten Luke with GMYoda and Vong in 150, WM Vong, JH Vong, Exile OR squad, Sith squad, and two different Republic squads, one with Yodabuck and the other a Qui-Gon trainer squad of 20ish uniques and Rangers.
In all of them, I generally did the same things. I used what ever tricks my squad had, to safely eliminate Luke's support quickly (or as soon as it was a real threat to me) and then focused fire on Luke. In one 150 (Vong) Leia and her two mice died as soon as they got close to Luke, offering him 0 rerolls. In the 200s, he has gotten rerolls, but here's the key, I never counted on him failing those rolls so it didn't matter.
All you have to do is understand how to count the damage you will get and need to kill him, and prevent what you can from him. It's really not that hard to do. Who cares if he Djem so's your 20pt melee figures to death? I don't. I don't need them to survive the battle. I don't win because they survive. I win because they put damage on Luke before he can Djem so me. I bait him into position, which as the only offensive piece in most of his squads, he has to take, and then pound him into the ground, usually in about 2 rounds. He cannot kill enough fast enough. I don't give up triple twins very often, but I do leave pieces with 10hps, or 20 left adjacent to him at the end of a round, after attacking. Why, because then Luke either has to waste his turn hitting it again, take and AoO in which case I don't care generally if Djem so hits or not, or get hit by it again after that. He can't kill multiple figures fast enough by himself.
Point is, the biggest weakness that you can exploit when playing against Luke isn't a lack of FPs, or him failing saves, it's his lack of consistent offensive punch. So when playing him, I believe more offense is better than more defense. Luke is a tough Son of a Gun at 115, but he needs to eliminate opposing pieces fast. It's tough to finish his last 20-30hps if you only have one decent attacker left, but if you still have 3, it's pretty much game over. That's the difference.
I agree on your point about Luke + Cade + Leia is worse.
That aside, well said. You going 8-0 -vs- Luke I'm said to say is meaningless. If that came from me to you, well, then it may mean something
In all seriousness, unless you're telling me those games are against say, Tint, Lobo, Dean, MtMagus or the other Top Players and not some random dudes on Vassal it really means nothing Bill. You could go 8-0 against pretty much anything
(That's a compliment by the way)