Here's a squad to take advantage of Talon's hit and run style. She can work her mobile lightning from behind the Kel Dor Bombs and her bubble twins as needed.

Talon 56
Boba Merc 58
Lobot 27
Kel Dor BH X3 39
Gran X2
Ugo X4

200pts, 12+ activations, MTB engine. Kel Dors work well with Talon to soften opponents and Boba finishes them off. Pretty self explanatory, but most certainly works well with Talon in there. You will have to be very careful dealing with Talon and the three BHs to even get to Boba. Which makes this a great interference squad concept. Obviously, if the MTB is not an option (San or NTMTOs) you can get the BBSV against accurate shooters - BGs and Caamasi Nobles against melee, Garindan against DR, and Wicket against high defense Jedi. I even have enough activations to run the MTB with Wicket/Gran or Garindan in this build. (Last Kel Dor can kill the MTB when needed).

Well in an attempt to improve this, the only thing I could think of was add a Commander effect, and you mentioned pulling that in with Lobot if you do not get the MTB engine. I like the function of the squad, and the tactics that it employs, What map do you plan to run it on? If it were me I would think about Chancellor's starship. Long firing lines that people tend to get exposed in. Obviously you plan to detonate your keldor bounty hunters with the MTB to get their self destruct 40. I think the biggest problem that you will have with it is the predominance of squads that use Tempo control, like a dodonna squad, this will really hurt because part of your strategy is to base with a Kel Dor at the end of a round, and with 12 base activations and no Tempo Fig doing that can be difficult. It is a weakness, but I don't know that it is big enough to worry about too much. What are your thoughts on facing Super stealth with this squad?

I would drop Talon and a Gran for Caedus. I realize you are trying to build something to complement Talon, but I think double-intuition/free turn movement is more beneficial, especially at 200 pts.

You don't get that with Caedus every turn. He takes too long to build up his FP's. I think it is better to have consistently good pieces than pieces that go off in spurts. Perhaps the preference is all mine.

I can get to 17 activations with the MTB and 4 Ugos, not enough to deal with a good Tempo squad - but obviously I still have options. The Kel Dors can just keep basing the opponents - hitting for 10 and forcing AoOs for another. I can kill ugos all day until I need to off the MTB, so I am pretty much fine with them doing that. Intuition with Boba let's me take care of the hiding pretty well, and of course Talon's lightning comes in handy in this situation as well.

I think you both forgot I can ignite my KDs with Talon as well. I think Cadeous is great with Boba Merc - in fact I run them at 150 and its pretty fun. But this is a different idea. This one works better with Talon. Part of it is the option to ignite the bombs, but more importantly, Talon and the KDs make an exceptional interference group. Talon's twin AoOs are more important than DC's Flow turns.

I really don't care about tempo squads with this, as all they can do is accurate shoot Talon after she moves. Well, clearly I won't be in los until I am in range to lightning, then I want her taking the damage anyways. I will bubble away what I can, and keep the pressure off Boba. You guys really get stuck on your thinking that Tempo control is so good at this point. Its really not that big of a deal guys.

I've lost exactly one game ever to a Tempo squad - and it was to Lobostele on Vassal when I had an MTB squad in which I couldn't use the MTB.

You still didnt answer my map question.

I think you forgot that Talon's lightning only hits one target.

Force Lightning 1 (Force 1, replaces attacks: range 6; 20 damage)

Still a great squad though, in my opinion.

Ah yes, going by Shoebox since I don't own her yet I forgot she has lightning 1 - which while it nerfs my idea for igniting the KDs, does make it less expensive to use, which makes it easier to use bubble. So fair trade I guess.

As far as Map, I would probably go with Rancor Pit or Chancellor's. Could make good argument for either with this build. Probably would just depend on the given day I ran it

I agree that Talon is better in this squad than Caedus. Sure, you'd get the double Intuition type movement, and might be able to set up some nice things. But against two pieces with Intuition and the MTB engine, it's honestly not that hard to avoid getting stuck in a rotten spot due to the Intuition, even if you don't have Tempo control, and ESPECIALLY if you have Tempo Control.

IMO, Caedus will certainly get fried against most Tempo Control squads. He'll be useful for exactly 1 round total - whenever he uses Flow Walk. You can't afford to waste his FPs on Illusion if you hope to Flow Walk at all, as you need 5 Force Points total in order to pull off a full-powered Flow Walk.

The other thing that would be nice about the BBSV in some situations is that it would give your KDBH's Evade as well. So, when people run away, taking the AoO, to try and kill the KDBH without being adjacent to them, you'll have a shot at avoiding the damage anyways, so that has an effect of really putting people in a pickle (see: Lumiya ). Actually, come to think of it, I might be tempted to try this same squad but using Lumiya and another Ugo instead. 4 pieces with SD40, one of which is a pretty beefy beatstick would certainly do well at tying up any opponents while Boba shreds them from the back.

You had better win the map roll, because otherwise this may not always be a true statement.



At 200, the amount you "bubble away" could realistically be ZERO.



Who the hell is "you guys?" The only person I see talking about tempo control is Luke.



Out of how many played against a tempo control character? Personally I would be less worried about true tempo control and more focused on the fact that a well-rounded squad with strong synergy and better attackers could, over the course of a few rounds, outactivate this squad even WITHOUT elements like Dodonna or San.

Yeah, thinking about it....one of the other things that would worry me would be an Imperial Trooper squad, or an Imperial SS squad. Both could be frustrating. Sure, the MTB will take away the full power of the swap, but those Super Commandos will sit in cover picking off anything you expose as long as they can, and you won't be able to Bubble/Lightning at all. Of course, if you are able to get close enough at the end of a round, a move of up to 8 and kill a SC might be worth it I guess.

Regular Trooper swarms will cause some trouble too I think, though Boba should be able to pick off at least one per round depending on the situation. Although, the 200 point Trooper swarm I built right after TFU came out utilizes Lando HOT, so drawing LOS on the Troopers gets pretty hard. And you'll be in real trouble with Talon when Evo Troopers under Thrawns bubble start shooting her, as 3 hits and she's dead. Here's the thread for reference: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1534. Although I believe the version of the squad that I actually ended up playing I dropped the Felucian STO for 3 more Raxus PT's and another Ugo, and I swaped out the Storm Commando for General Veers. But I think either build would cause some headaches for this.

Although, as always, just because one thing is difficult for something else, doesn't invalidate the build altogether.

Sorry, Bill, but the minute I learned you don't actually own Talon, your argument about how she can be great lost all credibility with me. I recently learned that critiquing characters and squads I had never actually played but instead based on my understanding of the game and how the stat card reads does a disservice to the people who like or dislike those pieces, and to the designers.

More lately, I have really been focusing my critique on the stuff I have actually used (and my apologies to Han Rogue and his defenders as well).

Well, fair enough Dennis. But I did play a few games on Vassal with her, and have played against her. I couldn't remember the exact stats, so I looked on Shoebox. That's my mistake. But I still think this squad would work pretty well as intended. I will just have to get a Talon and try it out

That's right, you should always look on Bloo Milk for stats.

That's of course the key point. And even then, I have some tricks to deal with troopers anyways, especially if they want to stay within the Bubble (kill thrawn).

And Boris - your point on maps is idiotic. Of course winning your map is better. But 2/3 200 point legal maps favor my squad. And the worst (Starship), is a pretty good map for Boba. And I can easily keep Talon out of Los until I'm ready on that map as well. I've done it lots of times before....

The only time bubble will not work is against Vong and figures within the thrawn bubble. Big deal. I've played against thrawn with jedi many times before, and I can easily break up the bubble as needed. Vong are a tougher match since Talon can basically do nothing to them. But the MTB blowing up the Kel Dors, and Boba shooting twice for likely 40, is enough to keep Talon from biting it too quickly.

And finally Lobo, Im not going to give Evos the ability to shoot me ever within the bubble, unless it exposes something to me that I need to kill, like Thrawn

Let's tone the harsh connotations down a notch or two; it's completely uncalled for. I'm certain you can make your point without it.

Yeah, maybe YOU can keep her out of LOS until just that right moment on a map that has limited walls and requires a lot of moving to get into melee through difficult terrain and low objects, but even the more experienced of typical players will not be as skillful at that as you.

Bill, how do you get to Thrawn and kill him without exposing yourself to the Evos or other Troopers? A good Thrawn player will never put him in a position where a Mobile attacker can pop out back and forth and shoot him.

Well, this is getting a little into specifics to be useful, but let's just say I base it on experience that if Thrawn is used offensively, he usually dies - and that happens when I run him that way as well. The key is of course, that you only do it in key situations where thrawn dying can usually win you the game, etc.

But more to the point. Let's say we are on Starship, and you have thrawn boosted shooters (perhaps SS). Where are you going to set up, that you can get shots on me, staying within the bubble, and not allow me to hit thrawn? If you have the left, you go for the wall, you've seen me run Boba Merc around the wall, so you know pretty much what I will do with him. When Boba moves in for his shots, the Evos will be based with Keldors, and Talon will be right in their grill (likely getting the kill hits on thrawn.

So let's say you try to blockade thrawn in a corner? Then I blow up kel Dors against mutiple figs, so you are really forced to spread some - which plays into my hand.

So, let's assume I can get to Thrawn in this situation, and kill him, now you still have your evos left go when I move in. At 200, you probably have 4 or so, and likely 3-4 raxus prime troopers. Since I went early, you likely get to shoot with all. Well, Bubble for Talon will be active (assuming you didn't use space for Veers) so you have to shoot her. If you can get shots on Boba he may also takes some hits, but likely should survive the round. I should have killed 2-3 Evos by now with the KDs, and likely have taken out the SC as well. So, the question is, can your squad kill me, when I always go first, and can now mobile lightning, and hide with stealth, and use Boba to intuition into a shot, and mobile away? Tough game, but certainly winnable from either side.

Now, if I win map, we are playing on either Rancor pit, or Chancelors (can't decide what I would like better). But either way, Talon's approach is much easier, and Boba had enough lanes of fire to set up properly from either side. You can perhaps protect thrawn better on Rancor pit, but, I can count spaces carefully enough to keep that from being a threat

So there you go. Not sure if that explains it properly, but if you wanna run a test game some time on Vassal, I would be up for it. I think it would be a really fun match, since we have strong counters to each other's squads (thrawn bubble, MTB, Cunning, Opp).

I'll take you up on that if we get a chance. I definitely would like to try them out against each other. I think you'd find that you would absolutely have to put damage on Thrawn early in the game before you rush in with Talon. If Talon doesn't kill Thrawn in her first assault on him, then she'll be wiped off the board, as Force Immunity will keep you from using Bubble. And the odds of Evos hitting her are pretty decent (only need 6's out of cover).

Yes, Talon is only going to rush Thrawn for the kill shots. Obviously she could still miss, but you take that chance. If you can set up a lucky los with Boba on thrawn early, then its easy. But odds are you are going to need to set up the Boba double, talon twin on the same round to take him out. That's the best scenario.