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 Post subject: 200 Ozzel
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:08 pm 
Black Sun Thug
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Here is the squad:
Thrawn 37
Mas 8
Ozzel 11
Boba, Merc 58
General Veers Hologram 17
Lobot 27
Amanin Scout 13
Probe Droid 8
4x Stormies 20
199
Most likely reinforcements is MTB and 4x Ugs.

The strategy is to out activate your opponent with Ozzel, then run 18 with wheel form from the Scout. Then switch the scout with Boba, who uses the end round, and the being of the next, because you will win initiative against everything but Han, rouge, to kill somthing important in their squad. Lobot is their to unlock any overrided doors and bring in the MTB, Probe Droid to kill off the MTB, and Veers is just good, but is there to help out against swarm squads. Aganist Rouge or someone without initiative control, Lobot won't bring in the MTB. Map is ROTS, but is playable on any of the 200 point maps.
Any help or positive critique is welcome


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 Post subject: Re: 200 Ozzel
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:56 pm 
Imperial Dignitaries
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Not a bad squad. I like the init and activation combo. No matter what you bring you should never get out activated.....and Boba Merc is awesome at picking off those important pieces you opp wants to hold onto.

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 Post subject: Re: 200 Ozzel
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:52 pm 
Black Sun Thug
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I also think Merc works well, but I'm still not sure if his movement and damage outweigh Boba BH's defensive powers.


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 Post subject: Re: 200 Ozzel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:23 am 
One of The Ones
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The only problem I see you running into is that with 1 activation, running Boba Merc up at the end of a round, and then shooting something the beginning of the next round, he'll end up stuck out there, and get pounded.

Your best bet to pull that off well would be to use the MTB to kill Ozzel at the beginning of that round. That way, Boba can shoot twice, and then Thrawn can still swap him out.

I think you may be trying to do too much with everything though. Only 4 Stormies with Veers Hologram is really not enough. You'll lose those Stormies pretty quick. Also, barring really lousy rolls against Fire Support Mission, your only real damage will have to come from Boba Merc. So, once your opponent kills either the Stormies or Boba, you're finished. I suggest concentrating on just one thing: either the Stormies/Veers combo, or the San Hill-esque Boba squad, which needs another high power damage dealer to really shine.

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 Post subject: Re: 200 Ozzel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:21 pm 
Black Sun Thug
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The whole point is to kill something very important to the make-up of the squad, like Princess Leia, take the lead on points, then play defense with Veers and Boba. I would really like to switch Boba, Merc to BH, but I'm not sure who that is possible. I do like the suggestion of killing Ozzel, but I think that may hurt on the playing defense after the big turn with Merc.


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 Post subject: Re: 200 Ozzel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:57 pm 
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I figured this is a slow play squad; I wouldn't pick out that important piece in the early rounds when it could leave Boba exposed. You could prevent the opp from holding much gambit though if you're careful though.

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 Post subject: Re: 200 Ozzel
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:34 am 
One of The Ones
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This is not the optimal build with Ozzel at 200. What do you do if your opponent has San Hill, or a squad centered around the MTB concept? The Nom Bomb 200 squads running around would have a field day with this too.

There's some good ideas in your squad, but I agree with LoboStele. You're trying to do too much with what you've got.

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 Post subject: Re: 200 Ozzel
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:12 am 
One of The Ones
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Ask 127 wrote:
The whole point is to kill something very important to the make-up of the squad, like Princess Leia, take the lead on points, then play defense with Veers and Boba. I would really like to switch Boba, Merc to BH, but I'm not sure who that is possible. I do like the suggestion of killing Ozzel, but I think that may hurt on the playing defense after the big turn with Merc.


And with most squads...if you expose Boba at some point to take out something like Princess Leia (has to be 60 HP or less for you to kill it in one activation with Fett), then that means Boba gets left out in the open for your enemy to hit him back with two activations. So, you might do 50-60 damage on your opponent, but they are likely to do just as much back to you.

Boba is the only real threat you have. How do you intend to contest the gambit zone if necessary? Boba Mercenary is a great piece, but he's not really best used in a Thrawn-swap situation. I just don't think you'll be able to do enough damage with Boba Merc by himself before he gets taken out. And it's quite easy to avoid the Veers-boosted Stormtroopers if you play smart enough.

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 Post subject: Re: 200 Ozzel
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:47 am 
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You know, as creative as this is I think that the problems have been well stated. Not many pieces will do more damage than Boba-Mercenary, but there are a couple of options in the imperial faction.

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 Post subject: Re: 200 Ozzel
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:56 am 
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Storm Commandos with either a RBSV protecting them or a Bith. They can take the double cunning, and still survive.

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 Post subject: Re: 200 Ozzel
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:27 pm 
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billiv15 wrote:
Storm Commandos with either a RBSV protecting them or a Bith. They can take the double cunning, and still survive.

I hadn't thought about that but the Quasi super stealth provided by the RBSV as opposed to true super stealth could be extremely handy especially with the addition of Mas Ameda, who you were already playing anyway. Good call Bill.

Note: In some variations of Black and Blue with this you could even give those commandos advantageous attack as well from Lord Vader.

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 Post subject: Re: 200 Ozzel
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:28 pm 
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I thought the squad could be fun, but I'm confused by two of Boris's comments. One, how would any other MTB squad, without Han Rouge, beat the initiative control? The MTB's would cancel out, and I would win initiative afterwards, bearing a one with Master Tactician. Two, how would the Nom Bombs beat me? Except for Felocr's, Holo Veers would kill any SS grunt that got near, and it would become a slaughter with Fire Support Mission's range. I would just like an answer to these questions. Also, like I said, I would like to run Boba BH, but I can't get the points to work.


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 Post subject: Re: 200 Ozzel
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:09 pm 
Name Calling Internet Bully
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Ask 127 wrote:
I thought the squad could be fun, but I'm confused by two of Boris's comments. One, how would any other MTB squad, without Han Rouge, beat the initiative control? The MTB's would cancel out, and I would win initiative afterwards, bearing a one with Master Tactician. Two, how would the Nom Bombs beat me? Except for Felocr's, Holo Veers would kill any SS grunt that got near, and it would become a slaughter with Fire Support Mission's range. I would just like an answer to these questions. Also, like I said, I would like to run Boba BH, but I can't get the points to work.


Because they will have more than 4 activations to kill to the MTB and you will have to kill yours long before they do. Nom with the MTB will sit there and wait you out.

Then you have 4 shooters for fire control. My Boba and Nom will take care of those with cunning attacks and then move out of los. And you can only kill a Nom grunt if they either fail the save, or have only 10hps. Good luck killing the 6-8 Aqualish Assasins Nom usually has with that. Not to mention, they will base your stormies and take them out quickly as well.

That's how. You cant deal with Nom at all with this squad. I can ignore Boba, because all you can hit with are the 4 stormies who will be priority targets for my Boba Merc and Nom early on while I wait for you to blow your fodder.

And finally, how are you going to kill the MTB? Im sure as hell not going to shoot your probe droid adjacent to the MTB. Its not like he presents a threat of any kind. You will have to get adjacent to one of my bombs and kill it. And then, I have the MTB over you, and you get to activate one at a time.

Its trying to do too much, which leaves too little. Playtest the squad against the meta, you should see its failings soon enough. I suggest focusing on either Thrawn Boba Swapping, MTB/Boba, or Ozzel/Piett. Trying to do all three just wont work against anything decent.

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 Post subject: Re: 200 Ozzel
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:54 pm 
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Ask 127 wrote:
I thought the squad could be fun, but I'm confused by two of Boris's comments. One, how would any other MTB squad, without Han Rouge, beat the initiative control? The MTB's would cancel out, and I would win initiative afterwards, bearing a one with Master Tactician. Two, how would the Nom Bombs beat me?


Well because you have with the Reinforcements, a total of 17 activations. Another player also running MTB in a different squad will probably have a way to get rid of theirs when necessary, while you will have to continue sacking your pieces. All they have to do is wait you out.

None of your guys can target non-adjacent enemies with Stealth that have cover, thanks to Nom. Typically, the squad also runs a high cost Boba like Merc or BH at the 200 point level for an alternate win condition. If I bring the MTB and 4 Gran, again all I have to do is wait you out, and I will sack a Gran adjacent to the MTB to kill both at the right time. Plus, most Nom Bomb squads built with these concepts in mind have as many as 23-25 activations, and all but 1 or 2 of them with Super stealth. Good luck keeping up with that.

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 Post subject: Re: 200 Ozzel
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:02 pm 
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Boris wrote:
None of your guys can target non-adjacent enemies with Stealth that have cover, thanks to Nom.


He does have Fire Control Mission, which allows him to do so since it ignores cover. But he has 4 stormies, not nearly enough to make that a useful strategy, and well, it =s one shot per round. Not nearly enough to handle a good Nom squad.

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 Post subject: Re: 200 Ozzel
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:13 pm 
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billiv15 wrote:
Boris wrote:
None of your guys can target non-adjacent enemies with Stealth that have cover, thanks to Nom.


He does have Fire Control Mission, which allows him to do so since it ignores cover. But he has 4 stormies, not nearly enough to make that a useful strategy, and well, it =s one shot per round. Not nearly enough to handle a good Nom squad.


Ah so he does. But as you say it won't be enough.

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 Post subject: Re: 200 Ozzel
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:16 pm 
Black Sun Thug
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So how about if I upgrade Boba Merc ot Boba BH, by changing Veers in for an Evo trooper, or something else worth 13 points, then I also swich one stormy for 2x Ugs, because I have one point left over. This gives me about the same damage output as I had with Merc, but now I gain surviablity, and flamethrower, plus one more activation and one more possible sacrifice to the MTB. Or, I could upgrade Veers to Lando S with my one point, and switch out one stormy to upgrade Boba Merc, to Boba BH.
Also, I'm confused about the Bombs, I will be, if I win side, I will be on the "good side" of the throne room. The only way to get to me is to come through the hallway, where there is no cover, so what is to stop me from shooting with everyone at the aqua's. As the corridor is not very wide, and with Fire Support unless you space them out so only one Aqua can attack me at a time, I will get at least two of them with the Fire Support Mission. The Nom thing doesn't really adhere to me much, because the last time someone experienced ran Bombs was right after A&E. I think that they are to scared of all the Disruptive and Force Sense or something.
Finally the Probe Droid has Self-Destruct 10, the cheapest piece to have that printed on its card.


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 Post subject: Re: 200 Ozzel
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:25 am 
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Ask 127 wrote:
I think that they are to scared of all the Disruptive and Force Sense or something.


Everytime I hear someone say this I always laugh. There are exactly 4 pieces with Disruptive, and only 2 of them are worth playing: R2P0 and Talon, and both are easily killed without the use of commander effects the moment they can be seen.

As for Force Sense, the pieces that have it aren't garnering very much popularity at this point as there are other versions of those characters (or more versatile options in the case of Depa) that keep them off the game table.

There's a big difference between playing the meta game and being scared of "counter-tactics." If a person's Nom Bomb squad only wins with Self-Destruct, then it's probably not going to do very well anyway, as the best Nom Bomb squads only use it to deal the final damage to key opponents.

And for the record, I played Nom Bomb against someone running Depa once. They Force Sensed all 3 times allowable and I still won the game. I'd be more concerned about It's a Trap! than Force Sense (and no, that doesn't scare me either).

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 Post subject: Re: 200 Ozzel
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:23 pm 
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Boris wrote:
Everytime I hear someone say this I always laugh. There are exactly 4 pieces with Disruptive, and only 2 of them are worth playing: R2P0 and Talon, and both are easily killed without the use of commander effects the moment they can be seen.




I think Juno Eclipse is another valid option for disruptive. I like putting her with Chewbacca rebel hero, and keeping her in range but out of sight. As for R2P0 I am not sure of the validity of this piece. I mean sure if you do the same thing with Chewbacca it stays around for a while, I just think that disruptive on an 8 point piece is hard to ignore.

I have a very hard time making decisions anymore when I want to fill up an 8 point slot in a rebel squad. Obi-Wan is excellent in a lot of cases, Juno is great, wicket is always an option, and the Original R2-D2 is STILL a useful little piece (especially if 2-1b and Chewbacca Rebel Hero are in the squad, that trio is Very difficult to bring down).

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 Post subject: Re: 200 Ozzel
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:31 pm 
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Luke_Skywalker wrote:
Boris wrote:
Everytime I hear someone say this I always laugh. There are exactly 4 pieces with Disruptive, and only 2 of them are worth playing: R2P0 and Talon, and both are easily killed without the use of commander effects the moment they can be seen.




I think Juno Eclipse is another valid option for disruptive. I like putting her with Chewbacca rebel hero, and keeping her in range but out of sight. As for R2P0 I am not sure of the validity of this piece. I mean sure if you do the same thing with Chewbacca it stays around for a while, I just think that disruptive on an 8 point piece is hard to ignore.

I have a very hard time making decisions anymore when I want to fill up an 8 point slot in a rebel squad. Obi-Wan is excellent in a lot of cases, Juno is great, wicket is always an option, and the Original R2-D2 is STILL a useful little piece (especially if 2-1b and Chewbacca Rebel Hero are in the squad, that trio is Very difficult to bring down).


Juno sucks. An 8 point piece that can combine fire (which is really the only way to use her on attacks because she will rarely if ever hit on her own) and with only 40 HP getting within 6 of the enemy for Disruptive will be beneficial for all of about a minute.

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