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 Post subject: Rebel Cannons, are they suddenly bad now?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:42 pm 
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--Cannon Spike--
47 Luke's Landspeeder
30 Chewbacca, Rebel Hero
27 Han Solo, Smuggler
20 Princess Leia
16 Elite Rebel Commando
16 General Crix Madine
14 General Rieekan
9 General Dodonna
9 R2-D2 with Extended Sensor
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6 Ugnaught Demolitionist x2

(200pts. 13 activations)


Here is a veriation on the Rebel Cannon builds that used to rule over our game. As a bonus it has every main rebel character (except C-3po, not a huge loss IMO). So my question is, are squads like this just not viable anymore?

Before anyone says "Awww, can't beat bastilla" tell me what exactly is it about squads like this that makes them not be able to beat squads such as Old Republic. This one isn't fully Relient on CE's to do damage. Without CE's I can still put out 80 with my 2 main guns per round + what I can do with my secondary and support characters. I also have double override, Recon, Disruptive, and a 120 HP bodyguard to take all the damage for me.

When did Rebels, the reason Star Wars exists in the first place, become the runt of the T1 litter? Is it just because of Old Republic and "She-who-must-not-be-named?" or is it just that damage and movement have gotten so high that their puny little 70 hp bodies cant handle it?

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 Post subject: Re: Rebel Cannons, are they suddenly bad now?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:31 pm 
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For one, the newest pieces in this squad are from 8 sets ago. Taking that into consideration, it's not too bad, and holds up as well as can be expected. If that particular build was still reigning high, than the V-sets would be doing something wrong, having not shifted the meta. Wasn't it a conscious decision that the Rebels were good enough, and can be left alone? The 3 pieces they got in DotF didn't bring anything huge to the table for them. R&R gave them the pilot squads, a minor movement breaker and a midcosted attacker that doesn't fit with this build. Vengeance & Cantina gave them 6 more pieces, but again don't fit with this build.

And of course the Rebs were left in the wind after IE by Wizards too. JA- nothing. GAW- nothing. DT- they got Ferus, the last significant addition to the faction as well as 5 other pieces, that were so-so. MotF- 6 pieces, 2 of them ghosts, 2 terrible Uniques, and 2 decent troopers without any real support.

I'd love to see the return of the Rebs to competitive play, and having you, as a member of the V-4 Design team voicing this same concern gives me hope for the faction.

I'd like to see new squad types developed for the Rebs as well as the Imperials. I would love to be able to be able to put together a serious Imperial squad that is not built around either Thrawn. Mas Amedda could also use some time on the bench. I like an Imperial squad, that someone who knows nothing about the game could see on the board and know that it is an Imperial squad.

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 Post subject: Re: Rebel Cannons, are they suddenly bad now?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:38 pm 
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R5Don4 wrote:
I'd like to see new squad types developed for the Rebs


I've heard somebody on the design team really likes those SpecForce guys. He'll just need a few sets to make them a T1 subfaction. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Rebel Cannons, are they suddenly bad now?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:04 pm 
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R5Don4 wrote:
I'd like to see new squad types developed for the Rebs as well as the Imperials. I would love to be able to be able to put together a serious Imperial squad that is not built around either Thrawn. Mas Amedda could also use some time on the bench. I like an Imperial squad, that someone who knows nothing about the game could see on the board and know that it is an Imperial squad.


I like the sound of this; I do think the Imperials probably have the most diverse squad builds available to them at the moment, but it's all based around techie pieces like Thrawns, Pallaeon, General Veers, General Weir etc. In my head I imagine Vader wading through a hail of fire from Rebel Troopers, surviving easily and reflecting lots of shots back.


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 Post subject: Re: Rebel Cannons, are they suddenly bad now?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:12 pm 
Droid Army Commander
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Echo wrote:
R5Don4 wrote:
I'd like to see new squad types developed for the Rebs


I've heard somebody on the design team really likes those SpecForce guys. He'll just need a few sets to make them a T1 subfaction. ;)


I'm counting on you Daniel, but I've to got ask why these guys are separate and not part of the Commandos? The Commandos are the Guerilla units of the SpecForce , http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Alliance_Special_Forces?image=Rebel_SpecForce-jpg.

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 Post subject: Re: Rebel Cannons, are they suddenly bad now?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:48 pm 
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Uhhh, they can't beat Bastilla (shhh, I didn't say her name). And I disagree I think they can. When talking about OR and if a squad can beat it, everyone always goes to damage first.
I can deal x amount of damage without ce's.
IMO the survive ability of the squad without ce's should be mentioned first before damage. With this squad you have speed and deflect in the landspeeder, and a huge bodyguard in chewy. Played by a good player this squad can survive the 2 rounds of abm and as soon as your ce's come back on, pounce on em.
How much damage can be done without ce's means little if you can't survive without ce's

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 Post subject: Re: Rebel Cannons, are they suddenly bad now?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:20 am 
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R5Don4 wrote:
Echo wrote:
R5Don4 wrote:
I'd like to see new squad types developed for the Rebs


I've heard somebody on the design team really likes those SpecForce guys. He'll just need a few sets to make them a T1 subfaction. ;)


I'm counting on you Daniel, but I've to got ask why these guys are separate and not part of the Commandos? The Commandos are the Guerilla units of the SpecForce , http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Alliance_Special_Forces?image=Rebel_SpecForce-jpg.


Well, the Commandos are a section of SpecForce, so it wouldn't make sense to make the others (the Vanguard, the Infiltrator, etc.) to be Commandos, since "Commando" is a more narrow designation. Basically what we're doing is starting to fill out the other Regiments of SpecForce, since the Commandos basically all are in the 4th and maybe 2nd Regiments.

This does give me an idea for a certain SpecForce commander, though....

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 Post subject: Re: Rebel Cannons, are they suddenly bad now?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:41 am 
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Weeks wrote:
So my question is, are squads like this just not viable anymore?

Before anyone says "Awww, can't beat bastilla" tell me what exactly is it about squads like this that makes them not be able to beat squads such as Old Republic. This one isn't fully Relient on CE's to do damage. Without CE's I can still put out 80 with my 2 main guns per round + what I can do with my secondary and support characters. I also have double override, Recon, Disruptive, and a 120 HP bodyguard to take all the damage for me.

When did Rebels, the reason Star Wars exists in the first place, become the runt of the T1 litter? Is it just because of Old Republic and "She-who-must-not-be-named?" or is it just that damage and movement have gotten so high that their puny little 70 hp bodies cant handle it?


Yes.


All your points are valid, and they are all pieces of the puzzle. I really think one of the problems with the rebels is that they are jack of all trades, master of none. Most things they can do, other squads can do better. They have superstealth, but it is very limited. They have levitate, but ganner does it better. They have non-uniques granting extra attacks, but OR's senators trump it. They have swap, but without Mas it has limited use. They have beatsticks now, but they still don't have what stacks up to the other factions.


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