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 Post subject: Bastila's Cannons - Need help with squad!
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 4:21 pm 
Warmaster
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So here's a squad I'm toying around with:

--Bastila's Cannons--
47 Mira
33 Bastila Shan, Jedi Master
27 Jedi Battlemaster
27 Lobot
26 Atton Rand
14 Old Republic Senator
13 Czerka Scientist
12 Gha Nachkt

Preferred Reinforcements:
(Lobot) 20 Mouse Droid x10

(199pts. 18 activations)

I was wondering what you guys thought of it, and perhaps what I needed to change to make it competitive. Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Bastila's Cannons - Need help with squad!
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 5:02 pm 
Jedi Battlemaster
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not much can be changed. A good squad build. Could go with Another JBM instead of Atton.. but I think Atton fits well here.

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 Post subject: Re: Bastila's Cannons - Need help with squad!
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 8:20 pm 
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I'm not 100 percent sold on the Czerka just because, if you're playing in a competitive setting, it will be awfully tricky to keep the Czerka alive (given that your opponents are likely to have movement breakers, accurate, or both). I could see dropping the Czerka and using the fourteen points you have left to give yourself more activations--really give yourself the chance to go nuts on activations if you want to so that you can either out-activate things or run an MTB with no hesitation if the situation calls for it. I'd rather have more activations than the possibility of jolt.

[EDIT]

I'd forgotten that Atton is base 10, so you could give him twin. Hmmm... It's really a question of whether you want to juice up Atton to really nasty levels or get more activations--both are pretty valuable. Nice build though.


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 Post subject: Re: Bastila's Cannons - Need help with squad!
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 8:54 pm 
Dark Lord of the Sith
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you need at least one uggie and I am not a fan of the mouse trick here.Its hurting you and I will tell you why. You really dont have enough acts to run the MTB and thats one of the main reasons to run the mouse trick now days. I would go BG over gha then some uggies or go x4 mouse/uggies so you can play the MTB. Really your only getting one extra act going with Gha. So I would just go uggie/mousex4 then bring in BG,MTB or max acts.

Gha mousex10 or 4uggie/mouse then 6 more acts with lobot. See its hurt you more than helping. By going Gha if you want to go bodyguard,uggie,mousex3 thats only six acts vs the 8 you could get when you put more acts in the base.

The best part of lobot is what you can bring in with him.


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 Post subject: Re: Bastila's Cannons - Need help with squad!
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 9:58 pm 
Death Star Designers
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I disagree. This build isn't built for mtb, but he could run it I guess if he wanted to but I think that be unwise. The power he has here is containing melee with his jbm (2 if you drop atton and czerka) and his classic scoundrel cannon tactics he can do with Mira and the senator.

10 mouse droids make it even tougher to get to Mira with non accurate shooters. That chick has 80 hp and no defensive powers outside of mobile. Fact is Mira will get flat ran over if she isn't screened. As of now there is no better way to screen her then a mouse wall and bg's.

The other benefit of the bg is keeping bastilla meditating when she gets hit. The bg cam take that hit and she can keep going. I almost wonder if visas marr would be a good fit here. 29 points for stealth nerfing and 90hp bg. She even has block!

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 Post subject: Re: Bastila's Cannons - Need help with squad!
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 10:37 pm 
Master of the Order
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It IS a nice squad. :)

I think I like it better dropping Atton/Czerka for another JBM and a Gammorean BG or HBG/mouse. Bring in a couple uggies if needed and the rest mice.

Maybe it's just because those JBMs have always given me fits when I've gone up against them, lol.


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 Post subject: Re: Bastila's Cannons - Need help with squad!
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 10:48 am 
Dark Lord of the Sith
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Weeks you just showed why you dont want to play Gha with your bg example.
If he plays uggies/mouse over gha he can bring in so much and it doesnt really hurt the act count
We are talking about 10 acts vs 11.He is getting the same Mice count without Gha just one less act. If he goes Gha he is really stuck with playing Mice every round.
Another reason to go Uggies or rodians over mice is that they can attack with the extra damage.

TBSV if he needs another shooter
TWIL BGx2
Max acts
MTB 4 more acts
BG mousex3
R7 4 more acts so on
Overall Gha is not worth it


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 Post subject: Re: Bastila's Cannons - Need help with squad!
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 9:57 am 
Death Star Designers
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None of those options are better then 10 mouse droids though. You won't always use 10 of them but most of the time they will save you because neither atton or Mira has any defensive abilities.

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 Post subject: Re: Bastila's Cannons - Need help with squad!
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 12:09 pm 
Dark Lord of the Sith
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Outside of the extra act whats the point of Gha and Lobots rein or a 30 hp gambit piece? But with the new maps and DOTF I dont think Gambit is that big a deal anymore as it use to be.
I am really lost why Gha is even in the squad outside of the extra act and a gambit getter?
giving up 12 points vs 12 gha yeah the mice are free I think that one is a coin flip
so really we are back to what are you really getting out out Gha? He cant heal anything.

I JUST DONT GET IT

I have played both Lobot and the mice trick to know that 90% of the time the uggie/mouse base is better.
sorry You have to have at least one uggie in the base that is just crazy not to have a uggie in the build.

I know 50% of the time you will want a BG then the other 50% you will want to do the mice trick. I still disagree that playing a gha in the base over one act is the way to go. You lose the best parts of what lobot can do and your stuck playing mice or playing less acts. Isnt the point of playing Gha to max out the acts? I dont see that happening in this build.


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 Post subject: Re: Bastila's Cannons - Need help with squad!
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 12:36 pm 
Death Star Designers
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jonnyb815 wrote:
Outside of the extra act whats the point of Gha and Lobots rein or a 30 hp gambit piece? But with the new maps and DOTF I dont think Gambit is that big a deal anymore as it use to be.
I am really lost why Gha is even in the squad outside of the extra act and a gambit getter?
giving up 12 points vs 12 gha yeah the mice are free I think that one is a coin flip
so really we are back to what are you really getting out out Gha? He cant heal anything.

I JUST DONT GET IT

I have played both Lobot and the mice trick to know that 90% of the time the uggie/mouse base is better.
sorry You have to have at least one uggie in the base that is just crazy not to have a uggie in the build.

I know 50% of the time you will want a BG then the other 50% you will want to do the mice trick. I still disagree that playing a gha in the base over one act is the way to go. You lose the best parts of what lobot can do and your stuck playing mice or playing less acts. Isnt the point of playing Gha to max out the acts? I dont see that happening in this build.


I disagree. For one thing, I really don't think it's crazy to not have an uggie in the build; I've certainly played both Lobot and the mice trick enough times that I think having just Lobot in your main squad for door control is enough. On a lot of maps and against a lot of squads you don't need anything more than that.

You also are disregarding everything else Gha does for you. Sure he doesn't repair anything, but he combines fire, he shoots at +3 (enough to kill an Ugnaught more often than not!), he collects Gambit (I don't see what makes you think Gambit isn't a big deal anymore), and he's a 30 HP blocker. I use him quite often to sit in 1-wide doorways, preventing anything that does less than 30 damage on the move from coming in (aka Yobuck).

I think that the two best reinforcement choices for Lobot by a wide margin are Gamorrean BG and an R7 or 10 Mouse Droids (maybe a Human BG, R7, and a Mouse depending on what kind of damage your opponent is doing). Plus you get the extra activation when you do the mice, and honestly every activation counts.

If anything I'd drop the Czerka from the build an plan on bringing her in with Lobot if you want her. You can replace her with a Human BG and 2 Mice, then bring in the Czerka and an R7 if you want it. If you were to do that, it might be reasonable to drop Gha, since you'll be using reinforcements to bring the Czerka more often than not.

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 Post subject: Re: Bastila's Cannons - Need help with squad!
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 12:44 pm 
Imperial Dignitaries
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I can see where Jonny's coming from.

Gha (12pts) + 10 mice = 11 acts
4 Ugs/Mice/Brutes (12pts) +6 reinforcements = 10 acts
...is it really worth it to commit 12 pts to Gha, and to handcuff your reinforcement options when you only get 1 more activation out of it?


As I look at it, there are only 3 main reasons to ever use Gha:
1. in a droid-centric squad (double Lancer, Nute/Whorm, etc)...in such a squad, he's an auto-include because of his Rapport and Repair
2. it's possibly arguable that he's worth it when you want to already have 2-3+ mice in the main build and you also plan on nearly always bringing in max acts via reinforcements (for a total of 12/13+ mice)
3. sometimes it's handy when your reinforcement or reserve droids cost 1 less (ie, taking a Gammor BG and an R7)

I've seen Gha/Lobot/Mice in lots of mass-activation squads (which, alas, are still Tier 1 :evil:), but unless both players are going the max-act route, I think he's actually more of a hindrance than a help. And if they're both going for max-acts, then I don't want to either watch or play that game, because fodder-spinning is neither fun nor strategic in my books.

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 Post subject: Re: Bastila's Cannons - Need help with squad!
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 12:58 pm 
Dark Lord of the Sith
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Echo wrote:
jonnyb815 wrote:
Outside of the extra act whats the point of Gha and Lobots rein or a 30 hp gambit piece? But with the new maps and DOTF I dont think Gambit is that big a deal anymore as it use to be.
I am really lost why Gha is even in the squad outside of the extra act and a gambit getter?
giving up 12 points vs 12 gha yeah the mice are free I think that one is a coin flip
so really we are back to what are you really getting out out Gha? He cant heal anything.

I JUST DONT GET IT

I have played both Lobot and the mice trick to know that 90% of the time the uggie/mouse base is better.
sorry You have to have at least one uggie in the base that is just crazy not to have a uggie in the build.

I know 50% of the time you will want a BG then the other 50% you will want to do the mice trick. I still disagree that playing a gha in the base over one act is the way to go. You lose the best parts of what lobot can do and your stuck playing mice or playing less acts. Isnt the point of playing Gha to max out the acts? I dont see that happening in this build.


I disagree. For one thing, I really don't think it's crazy to not have an uggie in the build; I've certainly played both Lobot and the mice trick enough times that I think having just Lobot in your main squad for door control is enough. On a lot of maps and against a lot of squads you don't need anything more than that.

You also are disregarding everything else Gha does for you. Sure he doesn't repair anything, but he combines fire, he shoots at +3 (enough to kill an Ugnaught more often than not!), he collects Gambit (I don't see what makes you think Gambit isn't a big deal anymore), and he's a 30 HP blocker. I use him quite often to sit in 1-wide doorways, preventing anything that does less than 30 damage on the move from coming in (aka Yobuck).

I think that the two best reinforcement choices for Lobot by a wide margin are Gamorrean BG and an R7 or 10 Mouse Droids (maybe a Human BG, R7, and a Mouse depending on what kind of damage your opponent is doing). Plus you get the extra activation when you do the mice, and honestly every activation counts.

If anything I'd drop the Czerka from the build an plan on bringing her in with Lobot if you want her. You can replace her with a Human BG and 2 Mice, then bring in the Czerka and an R7 if you want it. If you were to do that, it might be reasonable to drop Gha, since you'll be using reinforcements to bring the Czerka more often than not.

NR Mara yes mice are better
Seps lancer mice are not
Yodabuck mice are not(yes i know if he rolls a 1 they are good blockers)
Arica not
OR right now yea
accurate shot no
Vong yes yes yes yes yes
Sith I have not seen them played enough to say anything but right now I would say yes
Mandos yes and no

So its a coin flip if the mice are better over a BG. I would say its 60 vs 40 right now. yes your right about the mice being better blockers for mira. The reason I am bringing this up is because of the whole talk about mice coming in as rein.


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