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 Post subject: 86 Bulq
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:47 am 
Death Star Designers
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--86 Bulq--
33 Sora Bulq
27 Lobot
20 General Whorm Loathsom
64 IG-86 Assassin Droid x4
12 Gha Nachkt
10 San Hill
8 Battle Droid Officer
7 R7 Astromech Droid
6 Battle Droid x2
3 Ugnaught Demolitionist
10 Mouse Droid x5

Preferred Reinforcements:
(Lobot) 16 IG-86 Assassin Droid
(Lobot) 4 Mouse Droid x2

(200pts. 22 activations)

It's basicly Eric's Nute Gunray squad with Sora added in over Nute.

The squad still has a pretty high amount of versatility the main one being you don't autolose to lancer. You also make life very difficult on Yobuck depending on your reinforcements. Here's an example of my reinforcements so far.

Vs Shimmra + nom Bombs i brought in a Treadwell Droid and 2 Caamasi nobles. Nobles screened for the treadwell as It's A Trap cancelled out his bombs.

VS Skybuck i used 2 Caamasi Nobles, r7, and an uggie. This allowed me to close out doors and let sora be yobucks only target. Triple override is nice too.

Vs Lancer i used Kel Dor BH, Crumb, and a mouse droid. Crumb stayed beside my commanders to cancel the twin and sora and the kel dor blocked its path to get to my other stuff. Crumb is pretty insanely good in that matchup and SD40 and Djem so make life pretty tough on lancer. Good players can get around this so maybe going with more override might work better idk yet.

Those were the problem matchups as I've seen them so far and the squad handles all of them pretty nicely. Even with just 4 86's your firepower is pretty high. I havent had to go with 10 mouse droids yet and i dont think i will unless i run across Echo's Smug Commando build.

So have I guessed the problem matchups right? I think rebels could be an issue but with crumb i can take out evade on at least one piece and get rid of it with ig86's I also have sora to help take out problem pieces.

Any thoughts? Suggestions?

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 Post subject: Re: 86 Bulq
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:29 am 
Moff Disra
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Interesting sig line and then you place San Hill in the base squad.

I don't think you need to play San.

If you drop:
San 10
3x mouse 6
R7 7 pts
That frees up 23 points.

You can bring in R7's with Lobot if needed (or mice or Ugo's).

This is an interesting idea. But it does not have Nute. :(


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 Post subject: Re: 86 Bulq
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:18 pm 
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ok but what do i do with that 23 points? is this another hint at a new piece?

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 Post subject: Re: 86 Bulq
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:16 pm 
Dark Lord of the Sith
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This has nothing to do with the squad but a squad idea you need to play is boba merc MTB with poggle I think that could be fun.
It would be
Bulq,Merc,Poggle,whorm,San I dont know who the third attacker (lancer,Han Gambler?,Just IG droids?,Zuckuss)
Yes I think you have to play without lobot and build the MTB into the squad just kill him turn one if needed.


As for the squad Umm what about Battle Droid Sergeant. and BD mousex2.
Side note I kind of like San in this squad for some reason and you all know how much I dont like playing san or seeing him in a squad.

Or a Crab droid
Commando Captain
Geonosian Overseer
Security Battle droidx3 mouse
Bodyguard Droid
Poggle and Geonosians
Han Gambler, Mouse
Geno Assassin,Mouse
Whiphid Tracker and 8 more points
Spotter stuff keeping san?
T1


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 Post subject: Re: 86 Bulq
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:12 pm 
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Engineer wrote:
Interesting sig line and then you place San Hill in the base squad.


In David's defence I don't think anyone could argue with a straight face that San is abusive, or anywhere near the abomination that is General Dodonna lol

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 Post subject: Re: 86 Bulq
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:13 pm 
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There were a few. Heck, I remember a few in the times of COTF, way before Dodonna was ever thought up.

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 Post subject: Re: 86 Bulq
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:36 pm 
Name Calling Internet Bully
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Sithborg wrote:
There were a few. Heck, I remember a few in the times of COTF, way before Dodonna was ever thought up.


Yep, the classic and always anticipated overreaction to whatever is the flavor of the day.

It's always fun when you spend months convincing others of something being good, and you know you've finally gotten there when you see the first guy crying "BROKEN". I definitely remember more than one person saying that about San, and I really had to laugh at them for it. I get it, everything at the top must have some complainers - but those were just silly.

I also remember the day a guy started a thread about the brokenness of Jango BH, now that one was funny. But let's be fair, I'm pretty sure that was only one guy, San had at least a few dozen haters over the years. :)

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 Post subject: Re: 86 Bulq
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:22 pm 
Black Sun Thug
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Seriously? Wow, OK then, that must have been before my time :)

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 Post subject: Re: 86 Bulq
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:50 pm 
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Any comments in the accual squad?

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 Post subject: Re: 86 Bulq
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 4:14 pm 
Moff Disra
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Weeks wrote:
Any comments in the accual squad?

How would is fair in the mirror match against the Nute squad (6x IG-86 with twin)?

Both would have San, but 86 Bulq would have fewer activations?

I'm not sure giving up 2x IG-86 for Bulq is worth it. You already know my thoughts about including San Hill in the base squad.


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 Post subject: Re: 86 Bulq
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 4:45 pm 
Name Calling Internet Bully
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Engineer wrote:
Weeks wrote:
Any comments in the accual squad?

How would is fair in the mirror match against the Nute squad (6x IG-86 with twin)?

Both would have San, but 86 Bulq would have fewer activations?

I'm not sure giving up 2x IG-86 for Bulq is worth it. You already know my thoughts about including San Hill in the base squad.


I'm not sure the question of the "mirror" is a real important question these days. I haven't played a true mirror match in years at any tournament outside of the Taris Championship in 08. Do they really matter anymore? Is the question still relevant?

Sora gives it a chance against a double lancer - something yours does not have. There are other match ups too where Sora would be superior. So even if we say the mirror with 2 IGs would have the advantage in the mirror match, you would choose based on which you were more likely to have to face.

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 Post subject: Re: 86 Bulq
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:53 pm 
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Ya I'd lose the mirror but I was more wondering if Sora helps me vs what nute struggles against. Yobuck and lancer beat nute by killing his activations and whorm rather quickly. My goal was to emulate your idea but give it an edge in those matchups I think i've done it I was really just looking for tweeks.

I kind of agree with your stand on San Hill but i have to deal with Echo and Greg Sutton playing Dodonna in big tourneys so i figured San Would help.

I'm not against squeezing Another 86 in there over the r7 and some filler though, as i always have 10 mice as an option if i really need to outact. Losing double override may be worth i though for more firepower i'll test that.

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 Post subject: Re: 86 Bulq
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 6:15 pm 
Moff Disra
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Weeks wrote:
Ya I'd lose the mirror but I was more wondering if Sora helps me vs what nute struggles against. Yobuck and lancer beat nute by killing his activations and whorm rather quickly. My goal was to emulate your idea but give it an edge in those matchups I think i've done it I was really just looking for tweeks.

I kind of agree with your stand on San Hill but i have to deal with Echo and Greg Sutton playing Dodonna in big tourneys so i figured San Would help.

I'm not against squeezing Another 86 in there over the r7 and some filler though, as i always have 10 mice as an option if i really need to outact. Losing double override may be worth i though for more firepower i'll test that.

Have you ever played against the double Lancer? I only know one person playing it (urbanjedi). Yobuck is not that much of an issue. 60 HP on the IG's.

I now understand about San Hill. In your local games, lots of activation control is needed. Keeping San in the base squad is the best move then.


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 Post subject: Re: 86 Bulq
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 6:31 pm 
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Ive played against single lancer, not double as of yet. I cant quite wrap my head around what to do vs double lol

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 Post subject: Re: 86 Bulq
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:35 pm 
Moff Disra
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Weeks wrote:
Ive played against single lancer, not double as of yet. I cant quite wrap my head around what to do vs double lol

Lose


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 Post subject: Re: 86 Bulq
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:45 pm 
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idk on his map it be tough but i think on Throne Room or Bespin I'd have a better shot.

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 Post subject: Re: 86 Bulq
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:25 pm 
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be nice eric, he may lose but he would lose less than you :)

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 Post subject: Re: 86 Bulq
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 12:03 am 
Moff Disra
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urbanjedi wrote:
be nice eric, he may lose but he would lose less than you :)

Okay, it might only be a 2 point win instead of 3.


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 Post subject: Re: 86 Bulq
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 12:39 pm 
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Seriously though vs double lancer which is the worst matchup I can do 2 things with lobot depending on how I feel.

First I can do crumb, a kel dor, and a mouse droid. Kel dor and sora can block 2 paths or double down on one path. Crumb makes it tough to attack commanders or my 86's with strafe cause he cancels the twin until you kill him sonjust position him carefully.

Or I can do 2 r7s or a r7 and a kel dor. And just win with extreme amounts of override. It shouldn't be a walk in the park for lancer to walk all over me.

@ urbanjedi we should setup a time to play and test via vassal.

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 Post subject: Re: 86 Bulq
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 12:53 pm 
Name Calling Internet Bully
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The key to beating or competing with Jason's double lancer is to recognize he is going to kill things, and kill things fast. You have to be able to respond, killing the first lancer quickly. Jason knows this too, and that's actually part of the strategy of the squad, the first one is for basic suicide mission, the second cleans up, with the IG as the final nail for most squads. You have to get through all of them quickly to have a chance, and hope you have enough hps left to finish GGDAC and Sid before they get you. So you have to both advance quickly, and defend your pieces. It's a tall order, but the right pieces can do it.

Jason won't make a lot of mistakes with positioning, and will generally make the most of his strikes, so if you make one poor placement, expect it to be exploited. Sora is key in the matchup. He can kill the lancers, but you are going to have to expose your Whorm to do it. You generally have to trade him for one, and trade your mice and damage on the IGs for the other. Then its down to who can finish the other pieces first. The Keldor provides a nice blocker, but I'm not sure its superior to taking a BG. Oddly, the Gammorian may be the best reinforcement, although on the right map, override can be your friend. I'd generally play this squad on Chancellor's starship, as it presents not only safe squares from strafe, but also the ability to slow the lancer advance with the doors. You will have to bait the lancers because they outrange you significantly, so setting up the counter strikes is the key to the matchup.

Not an easy match, but one that the Sora version can compete in, as opposed to Eric's strategy of just losing :)

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