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 Post subject: Mando squad with no name but it needs tweaked anyway.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:52 am 
Big Bad Brad
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Took this to Kokomo this weekend and even though I had the concept in mind was still decieved by how much damage it could do in one phase.

Boba Fett, Mercenary Commander 57
Mandalorian Captain 23=80
Mandalorian Tactician 24=104
Mandalorian Gunsmith x2 32=136
Mandalorian Gunslinger x2 34=170
Mouse Droid x4 12-182
Twilek Black Sun Vigo 18=200

Premise is simple enough, but I'll briefly explain it anyway. Move the cloaked Tactician into LOS of a character, then hope Tactician is enough to gain you init. Activate 3 mobile Accurate shooters and ping away. The Gunslingers only hit at a +13 so you may need to be somewhat slective if you need to get off all 80 damage, but when you're slinging 220 dmage down the lane you're probably okay missing a few.

Master Tactician really hurts it, especially once they realize letting you activate 3 in the first phase is a really bad idea. Since it was a casual game, there was even one point where I told him I could do that but I wouldn't be able to hurt much (forgetting I had Accurate), that phase ended with a full Health Darth Bandon dead. (My non accurate selection would have been a 26D Revan with plenty of FP for Defense).

It suffers the same weakness most mobile squads do: Map roll/Lancer/Kybuck, but the quick strike high damage is worth the risk. When the risk fails, you're going to lose hard.

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 Post subject: Re: Mando squad with no name but it needs tweaked anyway.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:09 pm 
Death Star Designers
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All your damage is in cunning, i get you want to max the Tactition's ce out. But having only the Vigo as your late round shooter doesn't do much for you. Id drop the vigo and gunslingers for 2 scouts and at least 1 uggie (cause ughnaughts are amazing).

Then depending on meta pick one of the 4 really good uniques and and them in depending on your meta.

Jaster (gives you more shooters and death shots vs lancer and yobuck which is huge!)

Jaina (huge pain in the butt to play against, one mistake and big pieces start dying)

Boba (accurite is really strong for your team and boba MC is IMO the games best shooter)

Preserver (Armor is really good cause all your dude's have low HP)

With the build you have there I'd say go with Jaster. You even have the option to bring in the QM for +4 attack, Or the CIO vs NR dodonna.

Jaina would be good too but i see jaster being the better build here.

my $0.02 anyway hope that helps. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Mando squad with no name but it needs tweaked anyway.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:34 pm 
Big Bad Brad
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All my damage has to be in cunning, cause without Jaster there's no really good reason to include the CIO, so every squad is going to out activate me anyway.

Dropping the Gunslingers would definately be the last piece to do, they're the main cunning damage dealers. Of course, that's with leaving the TBSV in, so I can see your point on that one.

If I left it straight cunning, dropping accurate will doom this squad. A late round placement of a mouse droid and it's over.

I think we get in the bad habit of just making copycat squads, that are the same basic build, so let me rephrase my initial question: I want to keep the idea of Cunning Mobile Accurate (in that order) but how do I tweak it.

So here's how I rate the neccessity of each piece in the squad.

Tactician
Gunslingers/Gunsmith
Captain
TBSV
Boba
Gunsmiths/Gunslinger
mouse droids

I think the two Gun[x] are interchangeable depending on the rest. So if the Gunslinger route is the best, then I need the TBSV, at that point do I keep the smiths for Door control or go a different route. Keeping the Gunsmith as my main attack piece (60 vs 80 is minimal) then I can drop the Slingers and vigo for something else?

Boba I put a little further down the list because I can see the usefulness of other "Mandalores". The late round mouse droid screen would be huge without accurate, but at the same time I am basically hoping to kill a main piece and hope I survive the following phases, so Beskargam has some usefuleness.

Death Shot I would rank the lowest on the list since I have solid cunning. Without the QM I'm not going to hit anything and will no longer have Accurate.

Mice droids...well where do you put those. Mandalores can run well without them, but then are fairly clumped for a Strafe/Gallop.

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 Post subject: Re: Mando squad with no name but it needs tweaked anyway.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:00 pm 
Dark Lord of the Sith
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Even vs tempo Balance is the way to go. Cunning is great but you can get opp to work vs tempo. You just have to think outside the box. I played my vigo squad vs tempo control back in 09 and did just fine with it. I am with Weeks add at least one Scout. Mandos could deal with tempo control before it was the lancer that killed them. I dont care what others say thats what I still believe. The Atton/Dash combo was great vs Tempo control during JA since you could bring in a R4 with Lobot. Balance is the way to go even if you have Tempo control.

Vong,OR,Mandos,Lancer,yodabuck,Imp tricks with CLO should keep tempo control in check. I think tempo control is strong but nothing like it use to be. I think its going to be 50/50 if you play vs a Tempo control squad going forward.


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 Post subject: Re: Mando squad with no name but it needs tweaked anyway.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:22 pm 
Big Bad Brad
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Ok guys I get that every "competitive" Mando squad should basically be the same clone formula of:


"Mandalore" of 55 pts or near (Boba, Jaster, Jaina, Preserver)
Gunsmith x2
Scout x2
Captain/QM
filler

But that doesn't really help does it? I'm looking for something different as I am tired of the same old formula. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the use of the word balance here, I dunno.

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 Post subject: Re: Mando squad with no name but it needs tweaked anyway.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:31 pm 
Dark Lord of the Sith
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nevermind about the scout

Edit I might of be wrong about all of this
Maybe the Tactician brings the game back to 08 where cunning was amazing and all you really needed was cunning. I think your on to something will all the cunning.

To make the cunning work I might work in a r7 or a few more uggies. You need doors open to get the tactician LOS. I think you need to max the door control.

Brad your cunning trick is kind of a one trick pony and I have never been a fan of those type of squads. I think the MTB with your cunning trick might be something to look at.


Last edited by jonnyb815 on Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:42 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Mando squad with no name but it needs tweaked anyway.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:31 pm 
One of the Sith on Malgus' Shuttle
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If you're so worried about Master Tactician then use Lobot and bring in an MTB engine. If you don't go up against Master Tactician, then you can bring in an R8 and other miso pieces. As it stands now with this squad, no door control besides your attackers. It might be good to have separate door control as well in case your opponent locks you out at the end of the round, you're not forced to waste your attacker to open the door. So an R8 or some Uggies would work great here as backups.


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 Post subject: Re: Mando squad with no name but it needs tweaked anyway.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:39 pm 
Big Bad Brad
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I'd thought about the MTB, but where do I squeeze in Lobot? Plus with no out, I'm only getting 4 rounds before I have to start offing...mouse droids? assuming they aren't all gone.

I think with Lobot and or ugnaughts it's still working out almost the same if the override a door shut. I still have to use an activation to open or blow it (though I'm leary about not having a shot at closing them off from my low HP), then two Cunning Attackers to kill a main piece. I just don't see how to fit him in without losing an attacker from the whole build?

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 Post subject: Re: Mando squad with no name but it needs tweaked anyway.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 5:21 pm 
Death Star Designers
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Boba MC
Lobot
Gha
Tactition
Gunslinger
Gunslinger
TBSV
Czerka
r7
x4 mice.

13 acts go to either 23 without MTB or 19 with. You go down to czerka but that accually ups your potiential. You now have Jolt on 3 pieces (boba, tact, vigo) and Twin on your main damagers.

You dont do MTB vs strafe obviously I would say run it if your up against say Kyle JBM. use the 2 gunslingers to damage him and boba to jolt him.

If your really concerned about the czerka bring in another one with lobot. You also can get 4 overrides.

Now that i kinda know what your thinking i may be able to help more :)

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 Post subject: Re: Mando squad with no name but it needs tweaked anyway.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 5:34 pm 
One of the Sith on Malgus' Shuttle
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Looks good!

Weeks wrote:
If your really concerned about the czerka bring in another one with lobot. You also can get 4 overrides.

I'd probably go with a Bodyguard over another Czerka unless you care more about having the Czerka spread out. But a Gamorrean Bodyguard would be best against a Lancer/YoBuck.


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 Post subject: Re: Mando squad with no name but it needs tweaked anyway.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 5:55 pm 
Big Bad Brad
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The only thing I see is that Gha and 10 mouse droids become an incredible waste after round 2 or so if I don't use the MTB. I've never been comfortable with the Czerka in a Mando squad because a single one forces you to clump, but I guess against anything but Lancer and Kybuck that's fine and I can bring in a 2nd Czerka vs those squads.

I can see losing one Gunsmith, but both? That's a lot of damage. The tactician losing twin isn't huge since he only had a +9 anyway, it was just it's usually the twin that hits :)

Just not a fan of Gha and the 10 mice droids really, but it's essential practically to even give MTB an option. Is there anything with recon that I can run with CLObot?

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 Post subject: Re: Mando squad with no name but it needs tweaked anyway.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 5:56 pm 
Big Bad Brad
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jedispyder wrote:
Looks good!

Weeks wrote:
If your really concerned about the czerka bring in another one with lobot. You also can get 4 overrides.

I'd probably go with a Bodyguard over another Czerka unless you care more about having the Czerka spread out. But a Gamorrean Bodyguard would be best against a Lancer/YoBuck.



No point in the bodyguard at that point, wouldn't have much of a squad left :). I think a 2nd Czerka would be better.

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 Post subject: Re: Mando squad with no name but it needs tweaked anyway.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:49 pm 
Death Star Designers
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Gha gets gambit for you. Echo won gencon with that so i'd say it works. he also gets you 2-3 more rounds of mtb

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 Post subject: Re: Mando squad with no name but it needs tweaked anyway.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:54 pm 
One of the Sith on Malgus' Shuttle
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The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
No point in the bodyguard at that point, wouldn't have much of a squad left :). I think a 2nd Czerka would be better.

Yeah, for some reason thought the pieces were 50HP and not 40HP. Very good point ;)


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